Why the Soviet wide body airliner failed? Il-86

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[GlamorousTitanic]

My favorite feature of the IL-86 is the not 1, or 2, but 3 different air stairs for easy boarding and debarking. They allowed the 86 to operate from airports where air gates or mobile stair trucks didn’t exist.

[grahamariss]

The reason Soviet 2nd generation jet transports had the engines at the back was exactly the same reason the VC10 and 727 had their engines at the back, it was to provide a clean wing to allow them to maximise the effectiveness of the flaps to meet the take off requirements from short and or hot and high runways.

[Ned-Ryerson]

I flew on an Il-86 as a teenager in 1986, from Moscow to Berlin (SXF). Taking your luggage on board and handing it in was such a cool feature, and the short boarding stairs outside were also something really nice. By that stage, I had been on the first A-300s, and quite a few Boeings, so I really enjoyed the differences to those planes.
We had flown from SXF to Kyiv and from there to Moscow in Tu-154s, which probably meant that the noise level did not bother me in the slightest. Anybody who has been on a 737 from the early 70s knows that noise was not an unfamiliar thing on western planes. :)

[badaboehm]

I flew on one from Singapore to Delhi many years ago. Fun experience, the crew was a blast. Got to visit the cockpit in-flight too. Very interesting having the Captain talk about altitude in meters rather than feet.

[KapiteinKrentebol]

Fuselage engine placement has advantages compared to underwing engine placement.

- An aerodynamically clean wing.
- Lower ground clearance, so you don't need a tall landing gear.
- Less likely for engines to ingest foreign objects and cause damage
- Easier to fly with an engine failure.

So it wasn't just politics.

Underwing engine placement advantages are:

- Easy maintenance access.
- Easier to incorporate larger diameter engines in combination with taller (heavier) langing gear.
- Can place more engines (two engines stacked on each side of the fuselage just looks ridiculous).
- Maybe there are other advantages but I can't think of any.

[nong]

"Great design but the engines suck" Seems to be a running theme within Russian aviation

[colinhill]

I flew on the Xinjiang China Airlines il86 from Urumqi to Beijing service in the early 90s, they only had two in service, and not three from memory, This was also the only export sale of the aeroplane, indicating how unsuccessful the concept behind the plane was, I think the lack of range was always the big issue. Even though the planes were brand new when they went into service with Xinjiand China Airlines, they never felt like they were brand new, as the interior was vey utilitarian, with a lot of metal, formica panels and polished wood. I agree the spacious interior cabin made flying in the plane them rather a unique experience.

[HonuFlight]

I never knew about that meeting in Paris, it's really cool even during the height of the Cold War we were able to collaborate.

[Sacto]

In short, the Il-86 was actually a very good plane that was hampered by the old-technology jet engines available. The Ilyushin design bureau should have designed an improved version around two Progress (neé Lotarev) D-18T turbofans, which would have resulted in an Il-86 variant that could have competed well against the Airbus A300B4-600 models.

[colinw]

The IL-86 struck me as a Soviet version of the Airbus-340. A good plane hampered by underpowered inefficient engines. Both planes when looking at them at a distance on final approach at JFK myself and a good buddy of mine always gave us the impression of chubby 707s.

[CairnTerrier]

A little tidbit for you concerning the IL-86. My mother and brother both worked for Eastern Airlines….mother from 1977-1987, brother later on in sales. We were close friends with the Hartford CT station manager as well and he explained to my teenage aviation interested self that EA was “that close” to ordering the IL-86 for use on the air shuttle between Boston, New York, and Washington. So yes, the Russians were willing….and pushing…to sell the aircraft to anybody…especially western companies. The reasoning for then CEO Frank Borman’s consideration was to eliminate the second segments as much as possible on the shuttle (guaranteed seat for all passengers even if a second plane was needed for just one passenger), as well as maximizing passenger counts and revenue on each rotation. The airline was using A-300’s and 727’s at the time, but the A300 engines took longer to cool down between flights which slowed down the turn times. The wingspan was also too long for DCA’s taxiways and gated, thus it could not operate there. The IL-86 had shorter wings and low bypass engines which could cool down between flights quicker. The air stairs and self baggage system (most shuttle pax carried only small parcels as they were mostly commuters) could provide fast loading and unloading with the doors and stairs being used at the same time. The short range was not a factor as they would have seen only shuttle service.
What killed the idea was the continued ban of wide bodies as DCA as well as the part source drying up due to issues in Poland…not to mention the union/financial issues that were beginning to fester at the airline.

[hassan]

We will be eagerly waiting for a video on IL-96. Please do make it available.

[xiaoka]

I flew on an Aeroflot flight to Moscow from London in 89… the cabin looked like that. 8:20 the lack of overhead bins was the most notable feature…

[Psymanbee]

I flew a handful of times on this aircraft. We flew from Shannon, Ireland to Havana, via Gander for refueling, and again, drom Shannon to Moscow a few times. I really liked it. Yes, the engines were screamers, in comparison to those on the 747-100s I flew on during that period.

[nicolasdaum]

I flew in one in the late 80's from Moscow to Paris. I was amazed by the size of the cabin and the height of the ceiling. I found it quite comfortable and not very noisy. When I went to the toilet I was surprised to discover there was a wide staircase leading down to the lower deck. Much later I learned its purpose.

[shatterquartz]

The meeting in Paris sounds like something out of a spy thriller, with an extra comedic note that nobody had the foresight to bring paper, so the plans were drawn on napkins. According to Joe Sutter's testimony, once the napkins ran out he drew on the tablecloth. At the end of the meeting, the Soviets took everything with them.

[darkestlost]

Yep i really want to see the IL-96 history now man!

[xyzzy]

So maybe this plane is what I saw when I was a newbie ramper in the late ‘90s. At first looking straight on seeing the four engines and single deck and thought “Airbus?” But as I drove around to the side I saw the Aeroflot titles, and an open door to what I thought was a galley in the cargo hold. Ever since then I always wondered what plane it was, and now my question has been answered!

[KF]

I was lucky to fly it back in 2004, when I was, well, 4 years old. Still have some pieces of remembrance.

[jansvabek]

Nice video as always, please make one on the IL-96. Happy Holidays.