Solving Climate Change: Renewables or Nuclear?

Dr Mark Z. Jacobson of Stanford has modeled a transition to a carbon free economy for 139 countries and all 50 US States. He does not include nuclear power as a solution. Bill Gates has another opinion.

[jg]

If you've been following the energy-return-on-investment (EROI) story on PV solar you're aware that several recent reports show extremely low net energy production by this technology. Wind is somewhat better but still likely below the minimum EROI threshold that can maintain a modern society. PV solar doesn't generate enough surplus energy even to replicate itself, much less power society. "Renewable" energy is diffuse, intermittent and requires external storage (as opposed to fossil fuels and nuclear where the storage is in the fuel) so these are inherently inferior technologies. They can play a minor role but they can never replace fossil fuels to a meaningful degree. Only nuclear can do that.

[Tdisputations]

You can't solve all of our problems with solar and wind. It is unrealistic.

[Neeboopsh]

the thorium production chain doesnt make weapons grade nuclear material, which is a huge bonus.

[snookmeister]

Mark is comparing Apples to Oranges. He may be right in general about old nuclear but he's wrong with respect to what Terra Power will build in China.

[jg]

And if you've ever looked closely at Jacobson's state-by-state 100% renewable plans, they're so grossly unrealistic that it's hard to take the guy seriously anymore. He lives in some little bubble of academia that has not been penetrated by the real world.

I've forgotten how many millions of solar installations he calls for in Washington State, which is second only to Alaska in its unsuitability for solar generation.

[leerman]

Why is Jacobson comparing unsubsidized obsolete nuclear tech with renewables he doesn't say are subsidized or unsubsidized? Those prices for renewables also don't account for storage either. He's a zealot that's why. According to Jacobson logic Germany should have average rate prices lowering, not raising, but the wholesale price does go negative if you're about to overload the grid.

[Charccy]

(How to) Save our planet and solve climate change - get rid of the 1000 richest ideologist,  so the nature can recover from their investments.

[snookmeister]

The reactor Bill's talking about will run on stored waste and will not require mining. It can shut itself down and cool itself down with no power. Modern designs cannot be compared to 1950's technology. Right now, solar and wind are only part of the solution of a problem which much be solved.

[MrSparkle]

Fixing the mess in Japan for the decades to come, what is that going to cost?

[rapauli]

Wow, in 1964 we were promised clean, boundless fusion energy in 50 years - Where is it? Although I have not checked the UPS delivery - perhaps order it on Amazon.

[glennjohnson]

Psalm 2:1

1 Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing?

 

Psalm 33:10

10 The LORD bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.

Definition of a heathen: (in historical contexts) an individual or a people that
do not acknowledge the God of the Bible; a person who is not a Christian, who
is a pagan.

Christian
means followers of Jesus Christ and Christ in us. The Lord Jesus Christ said “If
you love Me keep My commandments” and one of His commandments is not to add or
take away from His Holy Word, the Mormons have added to His Holy Word with
their book of Mormons which makes them heathens, the Jehovah Witnesses have
their Watch Tower which also makes them heathens, any other so called faith who
have their own book that demand their congregation to follow are heathen, if
you dare, approach the Lord Jesus Christ Himself and inquire of Him.

Only
true Bible believing, God fearing servants of the Lord Jesus Christ have the
ear of God that He will hear us and we have the heart of God because besides
His Son Jesus Christ He loves us above all things, I say all that to say this

 

ll
Chronicles 7:14

14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Only
Christians can change the mind and therefore the heart of God and only He alone
can un-change climate change

[ttmallard]

Consider the real problem isn't emissions for the reality of being in what paleontology calls an "excursion" caused by a massive carbon "perturbation" such that the oceans are acidifying 10-times faster than the PETM indelible proof.

Direct heating of the planet has taken over center stage of heat sources that matter to the tiny humans not any changes we make to CO2 now although they are still TODO.

CO2 only tells sea-level to turn around & how high it goes in a few centuries, the other is how hot it gets which lasts tens of thousands of years longer how the planet works in an "excursion".

Arctic sea-ice loss, (albedo-loss heat-gain) = (20-years of CO2 forcing) and it's accelerating, this means one must reduce emissions to counter the direct heating of this source to slow warming the crisis.

This has been 1/4 the gain in planetary heat added by CO2 1979-present, not in the models as a dynamic property, eh?

Then add in the tiny humans ...

We need to exit the Steam-Age, a steam plant is 40% theoretically efficient thermally to put a watt on the wire.

Use 1/3 this means you burn 2-times the Joules to get a Watt, fine if you sell fuel hogwash to continue and not expect flying by 2C/3.6F like a glance out the window of your car on the freeway.

Let's count carbon-footprint & building time, need for EIS & terrorist concerns about the rotting fuel rods easy to target legally there for 60-years before the operators need to remove them already on-hand, oh yeah whadda' racket that is.

Then poignantly to the first watt generated between a nuke and putting up solar-panels and installing 12-kwh battery-inverter arrays for electricity in all residential in the U$A by the time it's done using the same backdoor credit system used by the biggies.

They like to crow about massive power, 1, 500-megawatt-hour output = 3, 000-megaJoules output in waste-heat directly heating the planet either by cooling the steam with water or heating the air & grounds that heats the air or groundwater that runs into the creek.

So count up all the Steam-Age power plants & capacity times 2 = the direct heating gained on a planetary scale.

This like albedo-loss far worse than the emissions now that we're at 407-ppm and gained a record 3.05-ppm in a single year Pleistocene avg 1-ppm/1000-years, big jump up end of the ice-age 1-ppm/180-years for "natural variation", ok?

That's 10-petagrams of carbon the tiny humans need now to wait 180, 000-years for its effects to be gone.

Being in an excursion all we can control are direct-heating processes now to create a cooling, the oceans will out-gas their excess CO2 to counter our end-of-emissions event which sets the clock & height of sea-level and maximum warming that lasts way too long.

So do what you like that's the geophysical rules and metrics to keep in mind, emissions matter to your 7th-generation, direct heating sources matter to your children.

When the Arctic sea-ice goes runaway albedo-loss heating begins, today it's the main sources of heating the Arctic causing feedbacks ashore emitting methane, the warm water emitting clathrate methane that now seen to raised global temperature on its own, a tipping point past.

The bonus feature a "megaflare" in the Laptev Sea 2km/1.2mi zone of bubbles all sizes, refreeze the seabed please, thanks.

The CO2 tipping point was passed below 320-ppm close enough to "natural variability" to recover the Holocene climate, no way at 407-ppm gaining 3-ppm/year and gaining albedo-loss heating faster by the season, .

We are in a geologic "excursion" sports fans the bets now on, "Can the tiny humans do anything meaningful the planet recognizes?" ... ante is delaying the 200, 000-year cycle or not.

Go for it superstars of power, glory & military might ... somehow the story of the party Moses returned to comes to mind.

[weekendworrier]

Nameplate capacity
Nameplate capacity, also known as the rated capacity, nominal capacity, installed capacity, or maximum effect, is the intended full-load sustained output of a facility such as a power plant, electric generator, a chemical plant, fuel plant, metal refinery, mine, and many others.

Output of a solar farm never exceeds 25% over a years time. It's normally less than 20%.

Maybe people should realize that calling a 20mw solar farm won't make it produce anywhere near that amount, on average over the period of a year.

Replacing fossil fuels with solar and wind is one of the dumbest ideas even produced.

Wind and solar produce 2% of world energy presently. Thinking it can go to 25% of world energy is even absurd.

[marshamarshall]

The nuclear reactors will always require uranium, which we are relying on Russia for it since it cannot be found in the US. Therefore, nuclear power is extremely expensive and dangerous. We would be better investing in renewable energy that can replace nuclear plants within 2-5years. We need sustainable energy. Nuclear Energy is not carbon free. Wind and solar are. Please my IL. We have 14 plants and 11 that are in operation. We have a nuclear waste site in Morris, which is no where near a nuclear plant. The people in IL are at risk as well as the surrounding states. We need to act now because these plants have not been held accountable for anything. The reactors are old and can fail anytime. They are too expensive to replace.

[ttmallard]

Consider about 80% of electricity is for thermal uses, if you remove that from a grid what's left that needs Steam-Age methods needs to burn twice the joules to put a watt on the wire.

This is great if you sell fuel but for physics heat-transfer means the waste-heat is twice the capacity of the plant.

So looking that up for steam plants it's about 17, 800-Twh of capacity, nukes are 2, 417-Twh, 14% of a total 36, 000-Tera-Joules of heat emitted to produce that power!

So then, at the other end after you boiled water to dry-steam the person turns on a heater, my first passive solar is still there the gain-storage means a fire is for ambiance.

This heating is too significant to ignore for electricity, using steam heats the planet straightaway, greenhousing is reflected energy from these heat sources the deal.

[grindupBaker]

The talking and plot at 3:30 are worthless because the amortization period(s) and assumed interest rate are not provided. Whenever amortization period(s) and assumed interest rate are not provided the cost should be provided in money/Kw, not in money/Kwh. To do otherwise as in the case of this talker and plot reeks of having a specific preference for whatever other reason(s) rather than the wish to properly inform people.

[kelleybrown]

How can you solve climate change with a power plant given the milankovitch cycles?

[jffryh]

all of the above except for fossil carbon fuels. #NuclearYesPlease

Isn't the problem with the nuclear vs. solar/wind equation that solar and wind requires unfathomable amounts of space to provide enough energy to sustain an increasing population? I'd really be interested in the back of the envelope calculation on how that works out.

[canadiannuclearman]

check out the rebutal document downloadable from www.roadmaptonowwhere.com and www.ecolo.org