Is Jonah Goldberg Turning Into a Libertarian? It Sure Sounds Like It.

The Suicide of the West author explains his anti-Trumpism, evolution on culture-war issues, and growing attraction to libertarianism.
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In his new book, Suicide of the West, National Review's Jonah Goldberg talks of what he calls "the Miracle"—the immense and ongoing increase in human wealth, health, freedom, and longevity ushered in during the Enlightenment and Industrial Revolution.

At turns sounding like Karl Marx, Joseph Schumpeter, and economist Deirdre McCloskey, Goldberg writes, "In a free market, money corrodes caste and class and lubricates social interaction….Capitalism is the most cooperative system ever created for the peaceful improvement of peoples' lives. It has only a single fatal flaw: It doesn't feel like it."

As his book's title suggests, Goldberg isn't worried the world is running out of resources. He's troubled by our unwillingness to defend, support, and improve customs, laws, and institutions that he believes are crucial to human flourishing.

"Decline is a choice," he writes, not a foregone conclusion. While he lays most of the blame for our current problems on a Romantic left emanating from Rousseau, he doesn't stint on the responsibility of his own tribe of conservative fear-mongers and reactionaries.

In a wide-ranging conversation with Reason, Goldberg talks about his new book, his persistent opposition to Trump, how his thinking has evolved on a number of culture-war issues, and why he can't just admit once and for all that he's becoming a libertarian.

Interview by Nick Gillespie. Edited by Alexis Garcia and Austin Bragg.

[GLOBLPNDMC]

"In a free market, money corrodes caste and class and lubricates social interaction....Capitalism is the most cooperative system ever created for the peaceful improvement of peoples' lives. It has only a single fatal flaw: It doesn't feel like it." - Jonah Goldberg

I love this quote. Karl Marx would be rolling in his grave if he heard this and saw it in action around us every day in the States.

[Rickpa]

2 year old interview that I just watched today. So many great ideas and quotes, I'll surely watch again at some point!

[nofreeride]

As the saying goes, "Hard times make tough men. Tough men make good times. Good times make soft men. Soft men make hard times."

[CriticalThinker]

Before watching this, I‘m going to say that Jonah is a political fusionist a la Frank Meyer. I also think Jonah knows better than to call himself a full on “L”ibertarian. Just like myself... I am libertarian on some issues, but since I believe in transcendent objective morality, I fall on the side of conservatives on some issues. I don’t see a problem with that even in the slightest. It is only the libertarian ideologues who do.

[invisibleaznDJ]

Interesting statement "if you try to turn the microcosm into the macrocosm, you may destroy the world. If you try to turn the macrocosm into the microcosm you will destroy the family" paraphrasing. But you get the point.

[GOP]

starting at 8 minutes, the conversation of microcosm versus macrocosm and the place for each one in life - wonderful!

[calebgeorge]

Sad that this doesn't have more views. Amazing interview, I just now found this channel.

[TheSunshineGroup]

Why do I have hope for the future?

There are so many god damn smart people articulating their thoughts brilliantly everywhere. Sure, there's also the opposite, but what a time for philosophy!

[charlespeterson]

"They wrote all this shit DOWN!" A man after my heart.

[PJHamann]

I could watch 8 hours of this conversation. Please set it up, and I'll buy lunch!

[jankragt]

Great conversation, Nick. Very stimulating. I'm reading a couple of Jonah Goldberg's books now. The book about the cliches is fun. I'm just an ordinary liberal so this conversation was a bit exotic for me, but I pretty much kept up and now have a reading list. Thanks

[ryanhunsader]

I would love to see Jonah and Steven Pinker debate the merits of the enlightenment bc both have some unique views on the era

[SigmundS]

Goldberg fails to realize that there is very little common ground between conservatives and liberals. It used to be we all used to agree on love of country.

[wk]

Libertarians have always been found in many degrees. It's why not enough libertarians can agree long enough to ever become a major party.

[nicmart]

What the country needs is a principled libertarian publication. The last one was The Freeman under editor Sheldon Richman.

[littlerainyone]

Superb. I could listen to these two guys all day long. Better than a Brahms symphony.

[listener]

24:00 if you're taking it from Coming Apart it's the top 20% as Murray was looking at the top and bottom quintiles. Which makes me curious about the other three.

[dennispresiloski]

“Because of the cultural stock of the population, and the American founding, and throughout much of the 19th century, it got instantiated and strengthened in our institutions.” - Jonah Goldberg

[MultiTexMex]

This is the most intelligent interview Reason has ever conducted.

[kirkbowyer]

GOD BLESS JONAH GOLDBERG; 'LIBERAL FASCISM' IS A FANTASTIC BOOK! THANKS FOR WRITING IT.