Don't Punish Victimless Crimes | Episode 73 | Everything is Everything

Should alcohol be banned? What about recreational drugs? Gambling? Hate speech?

You may disapprove of certain things, but if they do not infringe anyone's rights, then turning them into crimes tends to backfire. We should think hard about what we classify as crimes -- and also examine our own morality.

Welcome to Episode 73 of Everything is Everything, a weekly podcast hosted by Amit Varma and Ajay Shah.

If you like watching Everything is Everything, please like, subscribe, share, comment. :)

TABLE OF CONTENTS:
00:00 Packaging
00:13 Intro: How Do We Wow Them Today?
01:02 Chapter 1: What Are Victimless Crimes?
03:47 Chapter 2: Why We Should Not Punish Victimless Crimes
07:10 Chapter 3: Alcohol
14:19 Chapter 4: Drugs
20:32 Chapter 5: Gambling
25:03 Chapter 6: Prostitution
30:30 Chapter 7: Homosexuality
34:37 Chapter 8: Self-Harm
39:10 Chapter 9: Hate Speech
40:47 Chapter 10: The German Cannibal and our Moral Intuitions
47:36 Chapter 11: State Capability
58:31 Chapter 12: Recommendations

USEFUL RESOURCES:

Produced by Amit Varma

[Anish]

Tell me how can I support this EIE monetarily. Seriously I don't want this channel to stop ever.

[ranpru]

What a beautiful future we have if A2 become the philosophical Kings if the world!!!

[SudhirRathi-rq]

Love this body of work that you keep putting out...
Topic suggestion - the NOTA voting option

[dolmalhamo]

Great episode as always. So much to learn. Thank you for the knowledge you two.

[rizus]

A very enlightening episode. Lots of points to get your mind engine rolling. A must watch episode. I am going to share with my peers.

"Don't try to engineer society according to your values". I am going to use this one.

[leakedzebra]

Can you guys elaborate upon how this ties in with health economics? Banning or heavily taxing alcohol, refined sugar, cigarettes, saturated fats etc. or mandating seatbelts saree guards and helmets would in the long run really reduce the amount spent treating the citizens when they come in as patients and thus reduce the burden on the healthcare system.

[suvachattopadhyay]

While listening to it, so many times I said “Yes, yes”…such a meaningful episode.

One topic I was expecting that you would discuss - “illegal” immigration. What’s your take on immigration control?
Please do an episode on that Amit, Ajay.

[Agastya]

Question for both: What would you think of mandatory seat belts, should the state stay out of that as well? Or mandate it in public interest?

[Agastya]

Question for Amit: on the issue of suicide, even if you assume full ownership of oneself (there are debates that we hold our lives as a trustee, and i think Locke himself said life and liberty are inalienable, for e.g. you cant sell yourself into slavery), how do you decide if this person, who is going through obvious psychological problems, has freely consented to take their own life, and thus should be permitted to do so? If it is a decision devoid of free consent, should the state not intervene to protect this self harm?

[AftabAlam-hyny]

Dear Ajay & Amit,

Decriminalizing victimless crimes is appealing but it demands multilayered consideration. There may be no direct victim or coercion in drug use, consensual prostitution, gambling, adult incest or euthanasia, but considering that both of you are proponents of both Seen & Unseen, I think this topic warranted a deeper discussion, especially on the unseen consequences of these issues.

Regards
Aftab Alam

[pk]

Amit have you ever come across the idea of the natural law by Thomas Aquinas. The basic idea is that the human nature is a rational nature and with each moral act you could move either towards the perfection of this nature or away from that perfection. Things and acts have their proper ends which can be discovered by reason and you can either act accordingly or not.

[ud]

There is a victim in the chicken example.

[pk]

Murder is when an innocent life is intentionally taken. The idea of consent is irrelevant here.

[MandviKacker-bn]

But isn't prostitution legal in India and only pumping is not?

[Sahilisonline]

I almost missed the video because of this weird looking thumbnail.

[nv]

1) Walking nude in school/restaurant/office - victimless crime? Why is nudity outlawed when it harms no one?
2) Killing the most helpless/voiceless/powerless on this earth. Is it a victimless crime? (Have we asked animals if they consider themself as victims?)
3) Abortions. Victimless crime? (Have we asked the "conscious" life inside if it considers itself a victim? )
4) Illegal migration. Victimless crime?

[GaneshChess-kb]

While I agree with many points that have been discussed in the episode, I feel there is a certain nuance that has been missed. Some of the victimless crime have the potential to affect someone. You have touched upon the victimless crime of drunk husband mistreating the wife. There are others like DUI, in case of drugs there are cases of people doing antisocial activities under influence and harming society for satisfying the addiction. 

Essentially, activities which have potential for harming the society by altering the state of mind has to excluded from the list of victimless crimes. Other activities, imo, are truly victimless: homosexuality, prostituition etc. Also, in absence of state capacity, by making the first category of activities illegal, we are increasing the surface area of people getting to use those substances, potentially creating more addicts, reducing the productivity and state handicapped as it is to handle these issues. 

Thank you for making these episodes and making us think about these issues.