'BRITPOP' vs 'INDIE'... What's The Difference?

Join James Hargreaves to look at various differences within the world of 1990's Rock & Roll music in Britain, including north vs south, and working class vs middle class.

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[rory]

I've always thought of 'Britpop' as anything cool and British from the 90's rather than a musical genre, like for me there's something very Britpop about The Premier League or Trainspotting for example. As you say in the video, there's clear differences in the bands musically and why I've always found the competition between Blur and Oasis so strange from a music standpoint. They're making different music for different groups of people so should exist parallel to each other rather than clashing so distinctly.

[allmodcons]

I think there's another category, being Proto-Britpop: The Stone Roses, Happy Mondays, Lightning Seeds, The Smiths etc. Basically bands which sound Britpop and inspired it but weren't necessarily part of it.

[stevelogan]

Really interesting video, James, and thank you especially for the shout-out to Wales. Classification always follows in the footsteps of art, as you clearly know, and no sooner is a classification put forward than exceptions will be pointed out. Speaking as a Welsh working class musician, devoted to the Manics, two things occur to me. First, the definition of 'working class' has changed. On Question Time last year, a plumber spoke from the audience to say he thought £80K a year was too low for a higher tax rate. There are many people (me included) who think £80K a year is a lot of money. But many people who would identify as working class now earn that much. The poverty line seems to have moved up. Few fear actual starvation any more, thank goodness. Second, the class structure is different in each of the four nations of the UK, with England being both the most dominant country and, in class structure, the most unusual. In Wales, it used to be possible to say, pretty confidently, there was no middle class and for that reason most artists were by definition working class--a category that included most of the population. So all the Welsh artists you name are obviously working class whereas not all of the English ones are. (In fact, many bands pretend to be working class to increase their cred. The Stones are an obvious example). Britpop as you say is a four-nation thing. I'm so glad you pointed this out. It's a tricky subject. Fortunately, music often transcends national boundaries.

[j.p.]

Can you make a playlist with all the great britpop musician/band for someone coming into the scene?

[goops]

I always think of Definitely Maybe as indie rock and What’s the Story Morning Glory as pop rock

[GoodBlokeOutdoors]

Judging by the first couple uploads i've just watched i think i've just subscribed to a gem of a channel, keep up the good work!

[shredder]

Noel Gallagher always stated oasis were not Britpop and Liam recently tweeted he thought it was 'blousey' which is why he distanced himself from it. I remember Noel saying in an interview oasis were pop rock or 'pock' but usually just described as Rock.n Roll

[EthanDJC]

really appreciated that wales shoutout
cheers mate🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[simontunnicliffe]

Very good video James. You summed it up pretty well I thought. Would just like to add, Stuart Maconie who wrote for the NME was the man who came up with the term, "Britpop". ;-)

[rboy]

I was a teen in the naughties and caught the back end of oasis from Heathen Chemistry onwards.. so I guess i sort of inherited the love of 90's music which sort of had a nostalgia for me as I was probably conditioned to that genre as I was a 1991 baby.. without knowing! But having somebody categorise it like you have is helpful and paints a picture that I simply couldn't do just listening back! Loving the content by the way

[versloe]

i love this channel. you do such a great job. keep up the great work. johnathan

[pwgilbert]

Great video James! Your points are all very well thought out and presented. It’s interesting to see the Bluetones described as ‘the most northern southern band’ as while I tend to gravitate toward the northern bands, the Bluetones are the main exception. Keep up the great content!

[joshuacope]

Interesting how Radiohead, arguably the most artistically important British band of the decade, was never even considered part of either movement and actively tried to distance themselves from both by incorporating influences from jazz and krautrock

[WoodyGamesUK]

I completely agree with your classification. Even as a teenager from France, I could feel that strong division but I didn't know where it came from, just that there were British bands under the umbrella of Britpop that I loved, and others not so much, and it was always for the same reasons. The ones I didn't like (your "pop rock" category) always shared the same characteristics. Now when I reflect on that, I think the two sides of Britpop really don't have much in common, not musically anyway. They came from Britain around the same time. They were both a reaction to things from somewhere else (grunge being one). And they were both rooted in British culture, but that is very broad. They both picked a set of different British influences, and created something new out of it. The Beatles and classic British rock from the 60's is a common denominator. But for the "Indie rock" Britpop, punk was very influential. And even grunge I would dare say. For the "pop rock" Britpop, David Bowie and other influences that I'm less familiar with. You ended up with two very different styles. On a side note, I would not have included in Britpop any of the bands from the late 80's, even though the influence on 90's Britpop was there. I think the term "Britpop" came with Suede, then Blur followed by Oasis (I may be wrong on that).

[ThibaultKV]

I think Pulp is a tricky one, because the sound was quite arty and poppy, but some of the lyrics are really a tribute to working class people. Common People really stands against class tourism and wealthy people who complain and pretend to be something else.

Anyway i totally agree on the love songs point, it's really the gap between some kind of self indulgent pop and a really self aware rock'n'roll.

[benwilkinson]

Indie rock is superior in every way, every day of the week for me. great video again James

[SeanCampbell]

James I'm wondering what genre you would place the likes of Mogwai, Belle n sebastian And Arab Strap,

[charlesselden]

Britpop, Indie Rock, British Rock, all incredible music. #takebackthecharts Also, I'd include Radiohead as 90's Indie Rock for the characteristics of middle class, pessimistic, society etc.

[reillywalker]

Your analyses of Britpop seem fairly spot-on to me as a Canadian from 1995 who mostly rediscovered and stumbled upon it later in life. It's curious how you note that the "indie" side of Britpop stayed away from love songs when some of the fan favourite songs of those bands—"Slide Away" and "Talk Tonight" by Oasis and "History" by The Verve being good examples—are sentimental love songs. What you said isn't false in the slightest, but it shows how focusing too much on one part of an artist's work can make you lose sight of their entire image.

[scottmartin]

James could be deemed indie pop - even though they formed way back in '82, they were a big part of the Britpop era.