Destiny 2 Lore - The Witness' deep hatred of The Light & why it needs it for The Final Shape.

[dudeydude_clips]

The most interesting thing about the Witness is that it needs allies, like Rhulk, the Hive, Calus, Nezarec, and even tried to convince the Guardian to join it.

[kmanalpha]

The comment Mara made on taxidermy wasnt related to the failed copies The Witness makes, it was a statement about what The Witness desires with the universe. Endless, Unchanging, Perfection

[alejandrocarralero]

I hope that we see more of this aspect Witnesses character in the final shape, the witness is in my opinion a fantastic villain. A spiteful, hateful, unhinged genocider, masking under a seemingly calm and collected demeanor, only a facade to the in reality, not rational or calm or collected inside that we see glimpses of in the story and more in the lore. I mean, in its eyes, imagining your god abandoning you, despite being with you for millions of years, when you believed you were finally close to achieving your supposed purpose. The witness is the combined hatred and despair of possibly billions of beings, with any humanity they had left being ripped from them by the veil. This villain is so interesting and yet, Bungie hasn't explored this aspect in game enough, hopefully the final shape does this.

[RAD_tuck]

At the end of Mara's dream, she said she felt a campfire. Maybe that means that her connection to Crow is strengthening now, which would make sense since we're nearing TFS

[chrisnichols]

My favorite moment with the Witness was in lightfall when Calus is ranting and boasting and the Witness just turns around and floats away 😂😂.. with this whole "im tired of dealing with this guy" vibe. Its hilarious.

Like when some is annoying you and you just walk away from the convo. 😂 it was actually shown in this video and i laughed a good healthy laugh.

I love that scene.

[Bugattiboy]

The Witness is Morgoth. Everything it creates ends in failure because it doesn't have The Flame Imperishable.

[miagostream]

I couldve taken away such important information and understanding...but all i took away was the fact that Eido is so goddamn adorable

[AwashimaSeriLieutenant]

I can't see the witness as a serious threat anymore after someone put cat ears and whiskers on it

[H]

Wow that’s a big integral part of Destiny’s lore… which I’ve already completely forgotten about because we just learned Eliksni chirp when they’re super happy! That’s so adorable!😂😂😂

[vgernyc]

The Witness looks to create a universe of complete consensus. To create such a world, either everyone needs to be merged into the Witness or the Witness's consciousness needs to be placed in all life. The Witness reminds me of Agent Smith from The Matrix and Reverend Kane from Poltergeist.

[DeusExAngelo]

What I appreciate about The Witness is how it is very much Destiny version of The Devil done right. (Much like Melkor/Morgoth from Middle Earth). A being of existential evil.

Not just by the nature of it being the setting's big bad and evil, but it's modus operandi, motivation, and in-game history.

Is the Witness a fallen angel? No. Yet it was the first species uplifted by the Traveler and had a close relationship with it. They gained much insight, power, and paradise from their god, but many among them began to doubt it's power and motives.

They ultimately came to the conclusion that they knew better than their god, the one who gave them everything, and desired to reshape the universe as they saw fit. They believed in their hubris they knew what The Final Shape should be. (The road to hell is paved with good intentions).

Them becoming The Witness is akin to their fall, if The Devil and the host of heaven became one. A cold deciever with deep seated rage and hatred of the god and it's creation that spurned them. One that believes it is ultimately right and unable (or unwilling) to consider it may be wrong.

Beyond that, we see how it chooses it's Disciples and what it turns them into. It whispers softly and quietly, exacerbating their traumas and suffering, promising them power and purpose, turning them into beings like it. Beings of hurt and hatred, who become their worst selves. Mass genocidal psychopathes and manipulators. All the while seemingly being unaware they will be cast away when they are no longer useful. That their master does not really care about them beyond that.

It also knowlingly causes mass suffering, in part because I believe it uses the Darkness to draw power from it, but also because of it's deep-seated rage and hatred. Especially those who were uplifted by The Traveler. I think in part because of envy, but also in part of wanting The Traveler to suffer everytime. Much like The Devil wanting to spite God.

[roddyu]

Mara's dream reminded me of this quote from Doctor Who: "There's all sorts of realities around us, different dimensions, billions of parallel universes all stacked up against each other. The Void is the space in between, containing absolutely nothing. Imagine that. Nothing. No light, no dark, no up, no down, no life, no time. Without end. My people called it the Void. The Eternals call it the Howling. But some people call it Hell."

[AbberantAngler]

Crazy that the precursors did all that despite being ottsels, Jak and Daxter prepped us for this

[PapaBilbo]

Just wanna say about the shaker from the sponsor segment, it’s strong af. It’s fallen off my car a few times and ran over and still kept its shape and gave me no issues

[Jonononon]

Lore Daddy Byf be the only thing that keeps me in the destiny universe

[shadowheart]

Plot twist marathon is the final shape and marathon is actually d3.

[WrathNebula]

I actually find it funny, the Witness hates the Light, but needs it for its goal to create the Final Shape, yet we guardians hated the Darkness, but needed its power to protect not just humanity of both Earth and Neomuna, but also our allies of the Cabal Ascendancy, the House of Light, and the Awoken of the Reef.

[Ghost_Toast]

My personal thought is that the Pale Heart is the Traveler's consciousness, the environment its thoughts and memories. The Witness used the Veil to enter it so it can consume the light and basically become God of the universe. Perhaps the Pale Heart is also a kind of afterlife for Lightbearers?

[markricheard]

I don’t think the Witness hates the Light, I think it needs to utilize both and got the Darkness because it was easier.

What’s interesting is that there is evidence to suggest that Nezarec, the Herald of the First Collapse, somehow managed to utilize light to some extent. He was first described as *“The Purest Light, * The Darkest Hour.” And in the Root of Nightmares Raid, he said that the Light Power that resurrected him was *“familiar”* to him. This also explains why Nezarec seems to be the Witnesses most valued Disciple. It literally built Statues to him on his Pyramid Ship and tried to heal him upon finding his corpse. (Of course failing because Witness did not have the Light) Nezarec got the closest to the Witnesses ultimate goal!

This also explains why the Witness tried to indoctrinate Guardians into becoming Disciples, they had achieved what only Nezarec before could, use of the Light and Darkness together without the forces cancelling each other out.

This is just speculation on my part, but perhaps the Witness secretly gave Nezarecs helmet (and maybe Robes) to the Guardians in an effort to say “you are both similar”

Oh and lastly, I think that Ancient D1 Grimoire Card were a Thatanonaut Guardian had a vision of the Black Garden, with a Flower in the shape of a Ghost beneath him. He reached down to pick it, but it pricked him, and spoke, *”You are a Dead Thing, made by a Dead Power, in the Shape of the Dead. All you will ever do is kill. You do not belong here, for this is a place of life.”* - I very strongly think this was the Witness that Posessed a Ghost. So the Witness has tracked us and our skill at killing, it reminded it of Nezarec and tried to make us accept that.

Oh, and you know how Fikrul also frequently calls us “Dead Thing”? What if the Witness would communicate to Fikrul inbetween deaths as well, calling Guardians dead things, in an effort to appeal to him into Discipleship, but just like the Guardians, he rejected the Witness!!

[inquisitorichijou]

In a system of dualism, 2 opposing powers who form a whole, one side alone can not achieve the ultimate.
As Byf said: the Witness thinking it can do this without the light was pure hubris.