How Gramophones play Tight Music - The Flyball Governor

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Video edited By Martin and Hannes from the Trainerds YouTube Channel:

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- Flyball Governors FTW!

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This video literally mad eme understand flyball governors, thank you Si Butler:

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[NOLAfugee]

I'm proud of you for not reinventing wheels on this project. Stick to researching which pre-existing inventions can prove to be helpful.

[jeremypearson]

The fact that the flyball governor plays "tighter" music is a big benefit, but can we all appreciate how great it is that the speed cab be adjusted on the fly?!?! That's a really big deal! This means that he can do tempo changes in the middle of a song.

[MegaTuroc]

Just remember that you're using friction and foam together. Much like brake pads in a car, friction will wear the foam down over time and will need to be replaced at regular intervals

[antonymitchell]

Before you fight the MM3, perhaps a good intermediate step would be a Marble drum machine? That way you can test everything as it's integrated together, and also have a cool machine to make some music with.

[fohjimjohnson]

One of the tricks of the Flyball governor {or any active Governor) is if the flywheel is too big it has to work harder to "correct" the speed of the Flywheel. even the Gramophone/Victrola does not have a flywheel between the spring motor and the governor.

[QuestionMan]

"I should not try to reinvent the wheel."
This—not the flyball governor—is your greatest breakthrough. Well done. I think things will go much more smoothly for you from here on. Much success to you!

[joran]

My mouth literally fell open upon seeing the BPM results of the flyball governer with the foam. This shows how invested I am (and probably many others) into this project

[jeffreyblack]

Ideally the test you need to do is one with variable load.
e.g. switching between no marbles being played, to lots of marbles being played.
This is the real struggle point for a machine like this.

This is also where a flyball governor can be so much better.
If the machine goes to fast (due to too low load), the friction can increase a lot to slow it down and clamp the tempo.
If the machine goes to slow, the governor very quickly stops applying friction at all allowing the tempo to increase to where it needs to be.
This very dramatic, almost step like response is what can make these governors so good.
An air break governor could never do that anywhere near as good.

[Fail-harold]

"It uses marbles as a weight"
Just in case it didn't already earn the title of *marble* machine with... everyting else

[IsaacReese-or]

Martin probably won't see this but I'll post it anyway. I think the flyball governor has an opportunity to be a beautiful centerpiece of the marble machine. I'm taking inspiration from the skyscraper Taipei 101 where the building is kept steady in the wind, earthquakes, etc. through the use of an enormous 18 foot diameter, 660 ton, steel sphere called a tuned mass damper. The tuned mass damper could have been hidden in the building but it has become a massive attraction.

Obviously a flyball governor is at a very different scale, but even making it slightly oversized, it could be something that truly shows the machine at work from a distance.

Another piece of inspiration is Andrew Bird's spinning Specimen Janus Horn Speakers. The spinning gramophone-looking horns really add to his stage presence and it has become a symbol for his live shows.

Given that so much of the marble machine is going to be small parts moving small distances with the marbles, I think the flyball governor could be an opportunity to showcase the large movements.

For an idea of what it could look like, there is a toy called a twirligig where the faster the toy spins, centripetal force causes the toy to change shape (usually it will be made up of ribbons but it could be anything). I'd love to see something like this.

[erobwen]

A break pad on a spring would probably also work. I think the foam is so much better because it allows for movement of the governor disk, while still breaking to different degrees. So when the speed is increased ever so slightly, it allows the governor to respond. Also it smooths out any wobbliness in the break disk. But your setup looks pretty sub-optimal when it comes to friction and stability. All the squeaky sounds are friction! So in the real machine it will probably be even better.

[DoSLG]

As a stationary steam engine operator, it brings me immense joy seeing mechanical principles like Centrifugal Governor regulation of speed still being used today. Delightful work🇵🇲🦆👍

[arothmanmusic]

Fun Fact: Flyball governors are the origin of the term "going balls-out." When your machine is "balls-out, " it's going at full speed.

[matthewhausmann]

Despite how bummed I was when he ended MMX, these small steps towards a new Marble Machine are getting me really hyped for what might come a couple years down the line.

[michaelpabian]

Of note, the original Victrola didnt use foam to break the flywheel, it used felt pads. I would be interested to see if felt provides a more durable and consistent material while still allowing some give.

[Hooptyroo]

These governors are where the phrase “balls to wall” comes from. They where on steam locomotives and when you where running at “full steam” the balls of the governor would be spinning as far out as they could go, almost touching the container they where in hence “balls to the wall”

[TheCalifornianeskimo]

Fun fact, flyball governors are where the term “balls out” comes from. I.E. “we’re going balls out on this one”

Glad you got your governor set right Martin, this series has been seriously fun

[roboman]

There's a lot of tuning you can do with the fly-ball governor. Some positions in its throw are going to work better than others, just because of the mechanical linkages. Different flywheel weights, different spring pressures, etc can move that position around.

Also be careful with wear and heat. Over a long concert, your brake material might wear or heat up, causing changes in tempo.

[-boon-]

I applaud your ability to run that test rig with all that squeaking and not go crazy...

[staceyhollerauer]

I have been watching you build and learn this whole machine from the beginning, and watched you scrap it twice. What a freaking rollercoaster. I have been emotionally invested since you kind of saved me while feeling imprisoned during Covid.

Learning from the mechanical masterminds of the past and getting to the point where you truly understand their work and also how to implement it in your design, I’m almost tearful. You’re on the brink of creating something that will not only play “tight music, ” but will be studied by generations as an example of what the marriage of modern technology and the past can achieve. It’s like learning from a grand master tradesman through the eyes of a journeyman.

I can only think that this kind of dedication/obsession is what lead to the breakthroughs of things like the fly wheel.

I was so skeptical about your obsession with “tight music” for a very long time, until I realized that you pretty much don’t want to make a marble machine until it can contend with the machines of the past. And with this, I finally get it. This is exactly what you wanted and needed to be able to proceed. You want to be a grand master.

And that’s why I believe you’ll literally never abandon this project. Because while you have no master to teach you, you have the past, and you really do find joy in the creating of something truly historical. Somewhere in you, you know how monumental this is, and how important it is to all of us who have been following your journey, but more importantly, you’re collecting data on how to better control randomness, and man, I really do believe that when this machine is finished, on whatever version, you’ll have contributed SO MUCH DATA to scientists and researchers all over the world.

Some of the machines you reference are literally their creators’ life works. You’re on that path to greatness. Never stop. Never give up. You’re on the path to doing something truly momentous.