Was Subutai Ever Defeated in Battle? - Medieval history #shorts

New Kings and Generals animated historical shorts video on Medieval History will talk about the Mongol general of Genghis Khan - Subutai, and if he was ever defeated in battle.

Previously:

Script: Jack Wilson
Video: Yağız Bozan and Murat Can Yağbasan

#Documentary #Kingsandgenerals #shorts

[WizardsandWarriors]

Every time we see Subutai, we inadvertantly scream "It is a trap!"

[LeoWarrior]

The Mongols being defeated by a feigned retreat? ironic.gif

[deadfichboat]

"Drawn into a feigned retreat" After using that same tactic over and over and over again, he fell for it himself. One would think he of all people could be able to spot it.

[aldrinmilespartosa]

Defeats are ok if you learn from it and improve upon.

[lmichael]

the Jin general that defeated Subutai, Chenheshang, is an absolute badass.

[heliographer]

the man won 65 pitched battles. 65-2 is a pretty good record to be honest.

[blazingtatsumaki]

Wow this is almost unbelievable after reading again and again subutai was undefeated. Thanks a lot for this video and bringing the lesser known side to light.

[arda]

Any general who didnt fight enough battles is undefeated.

[byronwaldron]

The defeat at the Daohui Valley did indeed happen, but the setback against the Bulgars was likely exaggerated.

First, the Daohui Valley. It appears to have been a rearguard action by Subutai. He had gone through the pass to attack the Jin from the west, but surprised by the rapidity of the Jin re-deployments from the Yellow River to the west, he made the decision to get out of there and was attacked while doing so. It was a defeat insofar as Napoleon's rearguard action at Berezina was a defeat.

However, the setback against the Bulgars appears to be historical but exaggerated.

There are three main sources:

1. Ali ibn al-Athir, who relied on traders who told stories relayed to them by the Bulgars themselves.
2. Friar Julian, who learned of the defeat directly from the Bulgars.
3. The Secret History of the Mongols.

1 and 2 are not independent and naturally biased, but the SHM does suggest that the Bulgars gave Subutai a hard time. So the Mongols appear to have experienced some kind of difficulty there. However, traditions 1 and 2 do not fit the subsequent evidence.

1. Subutai's Yuan Shi biography doesn't mention this event, but does record his defeat at the Daohui Valley. This doesn't necessarily mean much, but the biography does also note that after the Great Raid was completed, Subutai requested permission to create new units from a variety of nomadic peoples who had fought in his army during the campaign. This shows that they survived the overall campaign and suggests that his losses were not particularly heavy.

2. After encountering the Bulgars, he still defeated the Kipchak confederacy to their east, located north of the Caspian sea and between the Volga and Ural rivers. The Kipchaks lay between his army and the return home to Mongolia. In fact, the Kipchaks were actually the main target of the entire operation. These Kipchaks included a group that had previously harbored Mongol foes. Subutai had defeated them back in 1218, but they fled and then he was ambushed a day later by the Khwarezm Shah at the Quyli River. For this reason, his strategy in this campaign was to loop around the Caspian sea to attack the Kipchaks from the west, because then the Kipchaks couldn't flee from the Mongols, since they would be fleeing east into Mongol territory. Considering that these regions were unknown to the Mongols, this campaign represents a mind-boggling level of imagination!

This victory would not be possible if his army was as devastated as Ibn al-Athir claims. This event is noted by a number of later non-extant Ottoman historians who drew upon different historical traditions. The information is of unclear quality, but these events are referenced by H. G. Raverty and Petis de la Croix who had access to sources that are no longer extant.

The Ystoria Mongalorum also notes that the Bashkirs, who were southern vassals of the Bulgars, were conquered around 1224. This again would not have been possible if the Mongol army was destroyed.

3. The Bulgars did not act like a victorious state in their diplomatic dealings with the Rus. There is no record of them using their superior performance against the Mongols as a prestige-boost or intimidation tactic to the Rus. Instead, when the Mongols begin to appear in the region again in the 1230s, they act scared and plead with the Rus for help. They even offered to become a vassal of the Rus if one or more of the states would help them against the Mongols, but nothing came of it. Given this attitude and the fact that the Mongols had made very limited inroads prior to the 1236 invasion, it does not make sense that they would act in such a way had they won a major victory previously.

Subutai's later conquest of the Bulgars in 1236 was particularly sophisticated. He had two armies attack up both sides of the Volga River, while a third army completely outflanked the Bulgar positions by marching across the Ural Mountains far to the north, deep in Siberia, and then swooped down on the unsuspecting Bulgar rear. This level of sophistication and creativity may mean that he possessed a healthy respect for his foes following his previous encounters with them, or it may just have been his standard way of strategizing ever since, in 1226, he won the decisive success with his flanking operation during the conquest of Xi Xia.

Subutai may have suffered a minor defeat that led him to think twice about attacking the Bulgars, such as the ambush of a vanguard or scouting screen. The Bulgars magnified this into a major victory, but it did not change the trajectory of the Mongol campaign.

[fhffvgju]

You should do a video about volga Bulgaria

[kaijudirector]

The important thing to remember: he reversed those defeats. The Volga Bulgars were the first stop he had just before invading the Rus; he later took Kaifeng and executed the Jin general who outfoxed him at Tongguan.

[nikolaygk]

Finally, someone admits the Volga Bulgaria's victory over the Mongols. Many biased historians doubt the credibility of this story. It is interesting that Danube Bulgaria's King Ivan-Asen the Second also defeated one Mongols' army, but the sources left for this battle are very scarce.

[awaiskhan]

Brother you are legend because you know history

[AKAZA-kqjd]

Please those were small blips he definitely made a come back in Europe.

[TheRealArex]

"Okay lets see Khalid Ibn Al-Walids card?"

[simonepazsimon]

Subutei: "If I have a horse for every defeat I suffered from ambush then I would have two horses which isn't much but it's weird it happened twice"

[deadzerox]

id like to see a video about that JIN battle

[hab]

You Should also make a Video on Maratha General Bajirao who was Undefeated till it’s death for 20 years. He wasn’t even defeated once

[ellenjones]

Muquali was the Mongol general who never lost a battle, often with forces as small as 20, 000 against the Jin while Genghis was decimating the Khwarezmia.

[Gigas]

Good video, showing that no general's record is perfect. Speaking of generals with perfect records, Suvorov series?