How Michael Brooks Defeated Sam Harris

Michael Brooks was great at dissecting IDW types and exposing their BS. One caller recounts how Michael was most effective at deconstructing Sam Harris and showing him for the charlatan that he really is. Sam then recounts how Sam Harris defended torture way back in 2004-2005.

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Caller: Well I just wanted to say that, you were talking about Michael earlier, and the thing that really brought me into looking at what he was talking about was not Dave Rubin or Jordan Peterson but really Sam Harris. He really did a great job of sort of breaking him down to some of my friends, who had really kind of fallen into that sort of 'this is the logical guy' trap. And I just really wanted to say that that that meant a lot to a lot of people. But I also wanted to agree with Kowalski that it's great having Emma on there now, because you know her work at TYT when she was talking to the Trump people you know that was it really felt like you were seeing these people as people instead of sort of the CNN caricatures.
Sam Seder: Right so right well I appreciate the call I mean it's interesting the Sam Harris stuff if I remember correctly Michael's first podcast that he hosted was I think it was called deconstructed and it was for Reza Aslan. and Michael had studied in turkey and this came up on the show yesterday and was you know particularly sensitive to anti-muslim rhetoric. And Sam Harris at the time was really and, had been for some time, and this was in the early I guess teens or mid-teens were providing this sort of like logical veneer to anti-muslim you know bigotry. and you know this I mean as far back as like 2004 or five I think he had written something. I think it was literally the title on HuffPo at the time. this is when you know it would take sort of like reader submission type of stuff it was more sort of aggregate. was something I believe in in defense of torture. Yeah, and I went back and forth with him on that too a little bit. that was just reprehensible. Again the whole thing and we see this in other people these days. I mean Sam Harris is sort of laying a little bit low with this stuff. but there was a huge huge huge debate political debate raging in the country at that time about torture as it had become clear that there was a torture regime essentially that was unleashed by the Bush administration. and to weigh in with a hypothetical about how torture can work, which was completely, first of all, it was only hypothetical in so far as there was no data to back up what is his ass assertions were, whether that there are situations where you know someone's in a well, you know stories like you would see from like batman, you know I've got her in the well. and yes and I'm going to call her I'm going to let you go just as I retell this. and to pretend that it was just sort of a philosophical hypothetical you know examination of whether torture could be possible or not. as opposed you know you would have to have had no awareness of what was going on around you and of course, it was also not bad backed by I did there are no situations where it's like there's a ticking time bomb. or certainly, there wasn't at that time there's a ticking time bomb. and therefore we should torture the suspect to get us you know to find out where the ticking time bomb is. A. Because experts will tell you that that doesn't work. B. there is no ticking time bomb scenario. that's not happening. and C. The other thing that if I remember correctly that essay that he never addressed was when you do that you can't just measure in that moment the efficacy of diffusing that ticking time bomb but the implications it has for the entire police force. and in fact the entire policing world. as to using that methodology. because they can't always know whether or not there's a ticking time bomb. you don't know that until you torture them right. like how would you know there's a ticking time bomb but we don't know where it is?

[neorock]

_"The good die young, but Assholes(ie Pat Roberts of the world) live forever"_

Thinking of Michael makes me remember just how true the old adage is sometimes.... & just how much of a good dude he was. RIP, you are, very sorely missed Michael

[TACOINSURANCE]

Michael Brooks ruined Sam Harris for me and I will be forever grateful.

REST IN POWER MR BROOKS

[AZ-hgkw]

So, so, so miss Michael. What a force.

[mike_b]

RIP Michael, and thanks Emma, Sam and the crew, you guys have been and continue to be so valuable

[ThatKeyserSoze]

I was a fan of Sam Harris for quite some time. For me, the breaking point was when he continued to minimize the threat of white nationalist terrorism despite the FBI very specifically providing data to the contrary. His persistence that Muslims abroad posed a larger threat than right wing extremists here at home was the last straw for me. You cannot claim a logical and data-driven point of view and make that claim. I was done with him then.

[brentwalker]

The use of torture in movies influences peoples' attitudes. Hollywood provides a constant narrative of torture both as righteous, justified, and effective when used against "the bad guy".

[mostHumblePersonAlive]

I used to really like Sam Harris but his BLM takes were so difficult for me. It's like he didn't take any historical context for these protests into consideration with his analysis. That was a turning point and I quit listening to his podcast.

[lianjohnston]

Many of us went through a cringy phase of thinking Sam harris was a great thinker.

[strongbone]

Sam Harris is what happens when someone from r/atheism watches too much of Jordan peterson videos.

[blankspace]

you’d think a neuroscientist would find something like ‘advanced interrogation techniques’ fundamentally abhorrent, but I guess his mind is way more advanced than us mere plebes

[exiledfrommyself]

Harris has some takes I disagree with but the Majority Report is making him out to be far worse than he actually is.

[rmeddy]

Michael really bought to the forefront, a lot of red flags I had about Harris in the back of my head.

A lot of stuff was just not adding up for me and then one example Michael mentioned The Golden Girls thing and everything about Harris started making sense to me.

[behshadmohebali]

I read Sam Harris's the end of faith back in my youth and I was agreeing with it until he singled out Islam and advocated for a possible preemptive nuclear strike. I noticed that something is wrong with his "logic" as it didn't sound illogical but intentionally and consciously ill-informed. Michael did a great job of pointing out what the problem with that guy was and I will always miss him like an older brother I never met.

[jaylozza]

Yep Michael’s critiques of Sam Harris were spot on.

[disct]

I’m in the UK and discovered Michael recently, he was a breadth of fresh air with the truth. His critical thinking and historical context to arguments and conversation was incredible to listen to and really understand the topic being discussed. RIP ❤️

[Badartist]

I always thank Sam Harris. He was the one who woke me up from the path I was going (a group of people who ended up as the 'IDW' before they were) just by being a shit propagandist with less charisma. Made me see the cracks in it all.

[thaterasound]

Michael brooks will always be missed. Feeling nostalgic today and definitely miss him.

[ricodelavega]

sam harris isnt anti muslim, he's just against ignorance.

[TheHuxleyAgnostic]

No clue how Harris got a philosophy degree, when he doesn't seem to grasp basics, like subjectivity and objectivity.

[lukesenesac]

I had a lot of friends who fell victim to the IDW. And, that's how I found Michael's work. I've become part of a larger community of activists and organizers because of it. Thank you!