Plato's Timaeus: A Pythagorean Creation Myth

In this video, I explain the first section of the creation myth set forth in Plato’s Timaeus. I begin by explaining its mythological background, and arguing for the rationality of myth. I then sketch the basic picture of the Timaeus, in which the universe is said to be the artistic creation of a demiurge, who copied the beauty he saw in the eternal realm of the forms, in the world of becoming. After the basic frameworks is set forth, I elaborate some specific features of the model: Its account of the universe as a living being, the formation of the universe’s body and soul, and the creation of time, gods, and humanity.

The images used in this video were either created by me or are in the public domain.

[Phorquieu]

Another brilliant discussion by you, this time about Plato's Timaeus and its ("secret") connections with the teachings of the great Pythagoras... It is no small wonder that the Pythagorean sect was eventually persecuted and attacked in Pythagoras's lifetime... The religious conservatives at the time must have been shocked and apalled at teachings like this (which were so strange in comparison to the received traditions (animal sacrifice, idol worship, mysterious myths and rites whose origins they had forgotten) bequeathed by their ancestors. Just as Socrates and Jesus and John Scotus Eriugena and Spinoza and Giordano Bruno and Marguerite Porete were all persecuted and hated (and some of them horribly killed) so too with Pythagoras, in his day, before more educated minds eventually opened up to new knowledge... And speaking of new knowledge, the light you shine on this old text (Plato and Pythagoras) is very welcome - and much appreciated!

[noshirm]

Thank you, Doc. I was searching high and low for a lecture on the Timaeus that I could focus on as I walked. Yours fits the bill perfectly. Listening and learning 🙏🏻

[mani]

Wow I'd love to listen to these videos as podcasts! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge 🙏

[TheExceptionalState]

Many thanks for this thought provoking take on Timaeus. Very useful material for our series on Christianity as Mystical Fact.

[shanaynay]

Just found your channel. Gotta admit, I'm pretty stoked to binge on it. Lol.
Awesome subject matter.

[Honoringlife]

An excellent video. Thank you for putting in the time to explain with such care and clarity.

[ApolloMyLove]

I just get started with reading Timuaeus and Critias and got this recommendation, YouTube really reads my mind! Subscribed!

[brendantannam]

That was wonderful: thank you very much. I loved how the very last statement echoed Dante's very last verse in the Divine Comedy.

[chrysart]

Thank you for this excellent explanation of Timaeus.

[peterpakkula]

That was brillant & eye-opening, thank you!

[helenperala]

I thoroughly enjoyed listening to this, thank you. Have subscribed (Jan 2023). ;)

[killikelle]

I just love you and your channel bro, you are a treat.

[lilstars]

Thank you so much for this!! Recommended by Saffron and I'm so pleased to have found this

[canisronis]

Nicely done and very useful...thank you!

[jhenson]

This needs some ocarina of time background music, it would feel much more impactful haha

[scripturethroughancienteye]

As I went through this magisterial lecture I noticed the presenter had an irrepressible appetite for making negative comparisons with the Bible. I thought I'd overlook it and just let it go, as one often must do in the academy. But when the whole lecture culminated with one such comparison it seemed to justify my suspicion that there was an ax to grind.

To start off, the comparison with Psalm 89 was apt, as the Old Testament contains a number of creation myths, some of which are combat myths and some are not. A short time later there was a jab taken at God's "jealousy" and another taken at his participation in "human vices." The Hebrew word translated "jealousy" (קנא) is semantically broader than our word jealousy and does not always carry the same negative connotation. It may be used of "zeal" for example, or of an appropriate affection and defensive posture for that which is good, such as a man's loving concern for his wife. This caricature of petty jealousy, well known from a few pieces of popular antagonistic literature, is ultimately traceable to an unfortunate quirk of English translation.

The greatest irony is at the end when Timaeus is pitched as a story in which people are invited to know and ultimately shine like the divine stars of heaven, as where Genesis, again, is showcased as a lackluster alternative. A few misunderstandings here. OT scholars debate the meaning of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but they are quite certain the tree does not represent factual knowledge as such. Usually it's understood to mean something like establishing moral autonomy apart from the creator god, which even Timaeus would not permit since it is divine proportionality that becomes the rubric for human moral aspiration. The flourish about shining like the stars is ironic as well. Biblical scholars discern a story in which humans are meant to ascend to the divine council in exactly these terms, star-like terms. This is why the wise shine like the stars in Daniel 12, language usually reserved for divine beings. This language escalates in the Second Temple Period with figures like Philo who claims the children of Abraham are "like the stars" not only in quantity but in divine quality; and even Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 seems to be drawing on this ascent to divinity with his star language as a description of resurrection. The notion that the whole biblical narrative is about humans elevating themselves to the stars has even become a sort of subculture under biblical scholar Michael Heiser, which is why it was so strange to me to see this projected as precisely the sort of thing the biblical writers know nothing about. The presenter, in other words, did extraordinarily well when he remained in his lane - and I mean that as an authentic compliment on his talents. His animus, however, took him places where his fluency was broken.

[raycosmic]

God = Reality = Life

Absolute = All-inclusive

That which is, that is nothing in particular (actual), is by definition everything in general (potential).

0. Potential = Being
1. Actual = Becoming (actualized)

Life eternally actualizes infinite potential, because only Eternity can fully embrace Infinity.

The abstract (Heaven) can be expressed concretely (Earth) as a smile, hug, etc., thereby uniting Heaven and Earth.

Psyche/Soul:

Father = Mind = Inspiration
Mother = Heart = Aspiration
Child = Will = Volition

Integration = Integrity = Soul

When the Heart aspires, the Mind inquires and the Will conspires (combines).

'Now' is the presence of the eternal/Infinite within the temporal/finite, simply being aware of being aware.

Being For (positive)/not For (neutral) is inherently sustainable (good). Being against (negative) is inherently unsustainable (evil).

[hussienmohammed]

wait a minute! Isn't Timues recollecting the memory of the creation!? his soul was there, and no one was there but the creator. Timues is the creator. Socrates leaning back amused as his master Timues, is entertaining him.

Noone knows the full details of the first and second creations but God and demigods. Wanting to keep everything good and free of gealousy, the created is always granted the chance to creat. Even us, we are granted the chance to create literature, machines..etc.

[anthonyosorio]

Psalm 89 a creation myth? I simply don't see it.

[jfmaster]

He wrote that when to calm people down when hunabity realised their sin.humanities sin was actually disastrous too...we did it to ourselves.not god our nature is responsible for this world..this is humanities world now..what would plato philosophy around 100 b.c.e. speak of?. Lol. Not thay its a beautiful universe.