How to use the Viking Dane Axe: A methodology for research

How do we try to reconstruct historically-informed martial arts systems from the past, where we don't have a manual, treatise or living lineage? What I'm looking at here is not specifically how I think they should be used, but rather how you or anyone else could use history and other methods, to arrive at a plausible theory.

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[googlename]

You've got it all wrong Matt, these aren't even 2 handed weapons. They were dual wielded by the 8 foot tall berserkers

[kairyumina]

I am a history teacher and you really hit on a lot of the complexity behind making any sort of informed statement about any aspect of history. It is one of those situations where the more you know, the more you know that you know very little.

[obadiahluna]

Matt is seriously my favorite historian. He's got such a passion for weapons and manuscripts!

[maximechouinard]

For smaller axes (and I think the shafts on many of those replicas tend to be relatively overbuilt), we have some limited information from the use of axes in Ireland. In 1187, Gerald of Wales wrote about his travels in Ireland, visiting relatives there that fought in the Anglo-Norman invasion. He tells us that the Irish all carried axes as if they were walking sticks, and that they learned to use them from the Norwegians and Ostmen (Norse-Irish). He also says: "They strike with the axe with one hand and not both, with the thumb outstretched above the hand guiding the blow, from which neither a helmeted head struck directly on the crest, or the rest of the iron mail-clad body, protect from harming."

[CJOwen]

We all have the same numbers of limbs, and the same vulnerabilities and targets on our bodies. Yet, despite that, unarmed (and unarmored) combat varies considerably across time and geographic locations. I don't see why anyone should be surprised that the exact same weapon could be used so differently across cultures and times, if they gave it any thought at all.

[thatwhitewolf]

When you came to THE part about THE Diffrent Reipier styles, is it Possable there was Diffrent Axe styles between Dane, Norman or Rus?

[MalloonTarka]

In the vein of re-enactment and giving a source, I do LARP (European style). I don't use a Dane axe, but a friend of mine does, and I can describe what it's like to fight him. For context, I use a longsword, but I don't see how the situation would change much if I used a short sword and shield, mostly because several of my other friends fight like that and they get the same type of results against him. We can't use spears, so I don't know how that would affect things, but I suspect the extra reach would be a godsend.

Boiled down, fighting with a Dane axe means believing the best defence is a good offence. You can't really parry and you can barely block, but you can make your opponent fear for their life when they get close and use that to force them to keep their distance. I'll run down what it's like to fight against a Dane axe:

You get close enough to hit them, which means there is already an axe-head barrelling towards you. Do you
a) Block or parry? The momentum of the axe head smashes through your defence. You're dead.
b) Hit them before they hit you? The momentum of the axe carries it into your body as you stab or swing at the axe wielder. If you're lucky and you got a good hit in (avoiding armour, etc.) you're _both_ dead. If not... you're dead.
c) Dodge to the side? Chances are the axe was being swung at an angle anyway and slightly redirecting it isn't too difficult. You're probably dead.
d) Dodge backwards? You have several option here.
1. Dodge slightly? It's not enough, you're dead.
2. Dodge moderately? Hope to high heavens you didn't underestimate their reach. 50/50 chance you're dead. But if you survived, you can attack back before they can.
3. Dodge far? Well done, you successfully evaded the attack. Now you can try and attack back, but since you moved back far they had the time to use the axe's momentum and they swing at you again. Start from the top.

Let's just say, I can understand how a single Norseman wielding a Dane axe held a bridge by himself for so long.

[chrissimmons]

I feel that this video is closer to a process of historical investigation than anything specific to the Dane axe. I would really love a specific follow up video on your personal interpretation of how the Dane axe was possibly used.

[HoJu]

"I could get 10 rapier masters in this channel..." DO IT

[genghiskhan]

On the problem of Dane-Axe use, if there are any surviving treatises or traditions on the use of the Irish Sparth-Axe or the Scottish Lochaber-Axe, from what I know of the history of those weapons, they may be invaluable. This stems from the direct ancestry of the Sparth-axe for sure and the possible ancestry of the Lochaber-axe from the Dane-axe due to contact and conflict between the Irish and Scots with the Scandinavians. This couples with the fact that at least the Sparth-axe for sure but also possibly that the Lochaber-axe were used in very similar contexts to the Dane-axe: against shield walls in the hands of maille haubergeon armored iron/steel helmeted professional warriors (English Huscarls/Irish Gallowglasses).

[chrissymcgee]

Matt, this is your best video yet in my opinion, you have answered in detail many of my own questions and am pleased to hear that you value pictoral evidence, the Bayeoux tapestry etc. Without going into unnecessary detail, this was a classy and professional way of explaining your thoughts on what is HEMA and what could be HEMA. With regards the Dane Axe, I feel that it was probably used out of formation, shock and awe, force of arms style. Also it would make sense to be as heavily armoured as the period allowed, you as a Dane Axe user are going to draw a lot of attention. I think it takes the axe warfare style into another level, ramping up the aggressive style even further, it's attack, attack, attack. Great video, thank you.

[marcoatzori]

Very nice as always! But... now I feel the need of a video on the differences in rapier systems...

[toddgreener]

Frederico Malagutti recently put up a video with regards to the Shad/Matt debate over HEMA where he talks at length about how systems of combat with a weapon are SPECIFIC solutions to the problem space of accomplishing the goals of combat with given tools in certain contexts (the goals, tools, and context define the problem space). A fighting system is a SOLUTION to that problem, but it is not a UNIQUE solution. In fact, you could say that every combatant comes up with their own solution, because fencing systems themselves have to be a bit generalized in order to accommodate differences between individuals. Meyer talks about this in his 1570 treatise (I think it's in the forward, but he might expand on it more in his discussion about the sword).

So when we're trying to recreate the way that people fought in the past, we have to realize that we might come up with a completely legitimate solution to the problem that is combat, but if we cannot back it up with evidence from the sources, it's very hard to say that we're doing it the way they were doing it in the past.

[someguy]

“We got a general idea of how to hold the shaft of this weapon... Sliding the hands up and down for different purposes.” 🤣

How he manages to work these into every video while not even cracking a smile is genius.

[TyLarson]

I love how you carefully explain things so those who don't grok what words like historical mean can maybe glean something without naming any nerds who should not be named. Very well done.

[austininflorida]

As someone who has gotten a good chuckle seeing how stock images portray violin playing, I wonder how useful the artistic sources truly are.

[kingkilburn]

How to handle disagreement like a rational and emotionally mature adult and not be a pedantic dork.

[roalama]

Being Canadian, my mind immediately went to hockey when you talked about people holding the axe left hand forward.More people hold their stick with the left hand forward than right. Part of the reason is that you generate power on a slap shot by pulling with the back hand. I wonder if it is at all similar

[aaronbuckmaster]

In my experience, it’s like the drawn out or large gang fights I’ve been in with impact weapons and observed in training video. When the shit hits the fan and you’re fast and furious, everyone resorts to basic chopping. It’s effective, and defensive especially when you’re getting tired or winded.

[normtrooper]

I was just thinking about the Dane axe. Great video. It is amazing that the Dane axe has such a cultural imprint despite being largely limited in use and not having much material written about it