HIDDEN GEM? - Douglas Fir - Tommy's Tonewoods

**except Mark Gaiero! Welcome back wood lovers! Hope you enjoy this episode on Douglas Fir aka. Pseudotsuga Menziesii. Leave a comment, join the community!

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Tom Sands is a luthier renowned for creating some of the most responsive guitars in the world. Since apprenticing for Ervin Somogyi, Tom has taken his talents to North Yorkshire, building custom acoustic guitars from the Tom Sands Guitars workshop. Subscribe to the channel for weekly videos, ranging from Tommy’s Tonewoods and Introducing Episodes, to beautiful live sessions from independent artists. Join the community here, we love ya x

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[Zjefke]

I bought two pieces of Douglas Fir (quartersawn, very tightly ringed) I'm going to use for necks, after learning Ken Parker uses Douglas Fir as a core for his archtop necks.

[lsedge]

I built three electric guitars from my old front door which was originally hung in about 1911 so the tree must have been quite old. It makes a beautiful wood for guitar making. A bit tricky to work with but sound amazing. I also found an old Doug Fir 2x4 on the side of the road a year ago and made a bass out of it. I quite like it...and its free! (sometimes)

[electricladyguitarsdevonuk]

My first year of working in Forestry (1986) was thinning a Douglas Fir plantation with Bow saw & Axe - the smell is truly evocative!
Have used it for many projects, but obtaining UK based tight grain samples for guitar making is eluding me at present.
Great wood to work with!

[guitarmagic]

If I’m not mistaken, the Disney Concert hall that Frank Gehry dreamed up uses Doug Fir for sound treatment on the walls. I’m pretty sure Yasuhisa Toyota was the acoustician who designed the innards of that building.

[johnggudmundson]

I Live in Vancouver BC and my 1911 house was built entirely of doug fir. It was so plentiful back then and so superior to hemlock and other west coast spiecies that it was a no brainer. Although it was used for framing, timbers, flooring, casings etc, in homes it was usually stained dark to look like walnut or oak (more noble woods as was the thinking then). The old growth trees are mostly gone from BC forests now, even though they seemed infinite a hundred years ago. The boards you have would come from old growth trees with tight annual rings. And because the trees were so big, much of the lower part of the tree grew after the early branches fell off, meaning large diameters of clear wood. The resin pockets are very typical, but I think it may be that individual trees have more or less than others. It should be quite easy to obtain wood without the pockets. In my woodworking experience with it (I love the wood) the pockets do break through the finish over time, especially if the sap is fairly soft. You may be able to patch the grain at the pocket with some carefully inserted sections of wood from the same board. BTW, in lumber yards here in the 1970s construction lumber was all still doug fir. But for the last 30 years it is no longer available except for specialty beam sizes, and finishing purposes (eg edge grain boards for doors and windows available at specialty suppliers).

[NotesNNotes]

I’m from the Pacific Northwest and I adore Douglas Fir ❤

[johngriswold]

To a carpenter, Doug or Hem firs are standard materials, and the main difference between them and "white woods", like spruce, is the difference in the volume to strength ratio in comparison to the weight to strength ratio. Spruce has a much higher weight to strength ratio, Doug or Hem has a much higher volume to strength ratio. This is critical in the structural applications of carpentry, where the weight of structural members is not as important as the strength, particularly in their application as beams (floor joists, roof rafters, window and door headers). A spruce floor joist would need to be much larger than a Doug/Hem one to achieve the same resistance to bending (deflection), crushing at beam pockets, and shearing near the loading sites (beam pockets). For guitars, your philosophy on the importance of weight is critical to your use of Doug/Hem...Since your sound is generated by deflection of the braced top by string vibrations, many think that the lightest possible top assembly that can resist the string tension will allow the highest amplitude wave distortion of the top and thus the highest volume sound wave production. This may not be true. Futher, the use of stronger per volume Doug/Hem fir for bracing may allow for better sound wave production. Definitely worth some thought and experimentation.

[gaieroguitars]

Regarding the density of Doug Fir (and the material properties of any piece of wood)…

As the wood scientists have shown, there’s often as much variation within a species as there is between species. I always heard Doug Fir was too dense to use as a soundboard, so I stayed away from it.

Then I got a beautiful, well-seasoned, straight-grained, quarter sawn piece and measured its density along with a variety of spruces I had in the shop (Swiss, Sitka, European, Adirondack, Engelmann). The Doug Fir was less dense than about 75% of the comparative sets.

Generalizations about the properties of a wood species are too general to be useful on their own. Each piece needs to be considered individually and worked accordingly, as Tom often mentions.

It reminds me of a quote Tom and I walked past hundreds of times in Ervin’s shop: “In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.” (Attributed to a bunch of different people)

Thanks Tom for the shout out.

[markfisher]

Back in the late 50's and 60's it was a preferred trim in homes in the southern U.S.

[johnlind]

I think the Mark Gaiero guitar you saw at the show is both pretty and has a lovely tone. He is a fun builder to watch because he comes up with some interesting alternative tonewood ideas. I know next to nothing about building a guitar, but I must say that set of Douglas Fir you showed in the video would look fantastic with a quarter sawn Wenge B&S!
Thanks, John
Gig Harbor, WA

[Birkguitars]

Fascinating stuff as ever. The only time I have ever used Douglas fir was creating some skirting board to match the original ones in our victorian house. It was part of a larger project all made with reclaimed timber so the stuff we got was probably over 100 years old. It had been bandsawn to size so the first task was getting rid of the saw marks. I only had hand tools but I had a pretty hefty Makita belt sander so I whacked on an 80 grit belt and laid in. Total failure. Barely a mark on the wood. It was like trying to sand a piece of fecking granite. I have worked with ebony when making fingerboards and I swear the stuff I got for the skirting was harder than the ebony. All I could do was labour away with the belt sander but it took ages and my arms were close to dropping off by the time I finished. Each piece was about four feet long and nine inches deep and took hours of work just to get smooth. I don't know if it was the age of the wood or the conditions where it was used but it was definitely the hardest piece of timber I have ever worked. Maybe it is like oak that is relatively workable when green but turns to stone over time. If so that could have an interesting effect on an acoustic guitar.

[mitchelllittle]

Hi Tom, I love Douglas fir ! I have used this for my bracing material on a number of guitars and have found that it to produce a lovely sounding guitar. I find it hard to obtain for fronts though. good vids

[aaronlucasguitars]

As a wood lover, each installment of TTW is like a movie from my youth that I can watch over and over, always fantastic!

[schorrguitars]

This would also be nice with oak back/sides and a beech neck...construction lumber guitar theme.

[paulshea]

I built two guitars a couple of years ago both with Douglas fir tops and ash back & sides they were quite bright & loud in tone.

[stevevice]

Doug Fir is the ideal wood for timber frame homes and barns. It grows very straight and is quite strong in bending, so it makes great structural beams. I used it in a timber frame pavilion I designed for a client and it was quite heavy compared to the typical white pine timbers I have used in the past. The grain is also very beautiful and ages to a lovely reddish color. I had wondered when I was building that pavilion if it would make a good guitar top. I am interested in hearing the guitar you build with it.

[hampshirepiano]

It should.
Hope to hear it.
Hmm, I have a 1918 book indicating that fir was tried in piano SB's and spruce was determined to be optimum after experiments with SB's installed in the same models at the factory.
But it should be good for guitars, maybe.
Those piano guys of yesteryear before 1900 tried every wood imaginable it seems, even oak, and--no.
Guitar SB's are very differently arranged than piano SB's.
But guitars have more similarities with pianos than anybody in the guitar world thinks!

[mandolinman]

I apprenticed briefly under someone that built one. His go-to for decades on bracing has been Douglas fir.

[andrewbowen]

I’ve only just discovered what a beautiful looking wood Sycamore is Tom? Passing through the village of Windermere I came across a shop selling bespoke furniture by a guy called Peter Hall and I couldn’t believe that one of my least favourite trees Sycamore has this blonde, figured look to it🤯 I’ve since noticed that Rosie H of Turnstone guitars has used it for necks but I’ve wondered how it would be as the back n sides? Great content as always Tom and big up to all the superb live acts you have on👍

[MountainVoiceInc]

I have a few alternative species that sometimes I also wonder why are these not used as tops. Both white pine and Douglas fir have those resin flecks and are different than spruce in one way or another, but still sometimes a tree has good tone regardless of its species or density. Let me know if you want lots more tops. I have this perfectly straight, clear beautiful Douglas fir log that I have been unable to cut into beams as it’s just too nice to simply become a house.