Stop Signs Need to Go

A part of the script that I ultimately deleted at the end because the video was getting too long:

One last thing. In addition to being a structural traffic control tool, stop signs are a social law enforcement tool. Police use them to pull over suspicious cars and protect the rest of us from potential criminals. The issue is there's no consistency with which they pull people over. It actually seems incredibly subjective how they pull people over, and in a society where justice is supposed to be blind, this amount of inconsistency leaves a lot of room for bias, which then leaves a lot of room for doing the wrong thing.

So if you’re someone who is concerned about over-policing, and you’re wondering why your social media posts about defunding the police and your demands that your city slash your police budget aren't working, try this: suggest areas where you can reduce the scope of the police. We already did that with marijuana, so let’s do that with stop signs. Create an environment where there is no stop sign to run and let the police focus on the actual criminals, like P Diddy or whoever.

Because when you have an intersection where people are regularly running the stop signs, it doesn’t mean they’re bad people; it means it’s a bad intersection. Except this guy (clip of guy at 5:30). He’s a bad person and I really wish the police were here to ticket him.

[loganwashere]

Counterpoint from a pedestrian pov (which I’m sure you understand but didn’t really mention). When I’m crossing at a 4 way stop as a pedestrian I do get to own the intersection. I feel safer to step in front of moving vehicles knowing that they “should” stop. In roundabouts, I’ve found that cars do not like yielding to pedestrians whatsoever. They want to blow through and go where they want to go. Kind of like a pedestrian crossing with no stoplight, no one actually will stop for you

[evan]

“Stopabouts” are probably the stupidest thing that actually exists that I’ve learned about this month

[eryngo.urbanism]

Roundabouts may not be a silver bullet, but we would seriously benefit from them being waaay more common. Also, expanding the traffic calming toolkit with raised crosswalks, curb bump-outs, refuge islands, and modal filters is an excellent idea. And while stop signs may not be the best solution, they can temporarily improve an intersection while it is slated for some of these more effective redesigns.

[MikeWillSee]

The USA's obsession with stop signs is always something that amused me as a brit. Here we only use stop signs in exceptional circumstances, such as when visibility is seriously reduced to a point where you *absolutely must* stop. In pretty much all other circumstances, a give way/yield sign does the job better, allowing drivers to come to their own judgement about whether or not it is safe to proceed without coming to a full stop, and thus improving the overall flow of traffic!

In situations where traffic from all sides needs to give way we also have mini roundabouts, which function the same as a normal roundabout but with no central island (it's just paint instead). This works much better than a 4-way stop/4-way yield, because it establishes a clear hierarchy of who has priority and creates certainty for drivers, rather than trying to guess which car got there first as seen at 4-way stop signs!

[Ranman]

The funny thing is I live in Idaho and have always called the rolling stop the "California stop"

[diametheuslambda]

One thing NA urbanists seem to hate is one way streets, but there's so much benefit. Stoplights can have less phases, drivers are less frantic at intersections, pedestrian frogger is easier, you can free so much space for other uses, . The last bit is key for inside neighbourhoods. I understand the objection of encouraging speed, but I feel the better flow gives leeway to implement more traffic calming in other forms without causing much pushback.

[kilodeltaeight]

Seattle figured this out in the 70s: sometimes you need a stop sign, but a roundabout is often always better: and in most neighborhoods, you find those (locally called “Traffic Circles”) at most intersections that aren’t major thoroughfares. As a bonus, they create a little green space that can host a tree or some flowers (maintained by neighbors!), helping cool the city, reduce noise/air pollution, and reduce urban runoff. They’re also very cheap to build since they’re small and don’t require any complex engineering work.

They work incredibly well for reducing speeding on side streets, and creating more bike-friendly routes, while helping traffic move better. Busses handle them fine, too.

Alas for bigger multi-lane intersections they still mostly use traffic lights, but even that’s starting to change.

[j_frosty]

I'm a UCLA alum/current staff in the dept of publich health, cyclist since I was 10, and have lived in this exact neighborhood for 3 years. The urban planning/flaws you highlight are so real and are a major detraction to safety, well-being, and overall vibe in LA. Sometimes these problems feel like they'll never be solved, but I hope your vids get seen by decision-makers and taken seriously. Thank you, this is super valuable work and I empathize with the frustration. I just hope none of us get mowed down while trying to live a normal human life.

[BoulderHikerBoy]

There are some arguments against roundabouts... but, in the end, the ability of the roundabout to transform a T-bone collision into a fender bender is the decisive factor. This one feature, alone, outweighs all other concerns, even level of service. And where space just doesn't allow a roundabout, the raised, uncontrolled intersection is the next best thing. Great video!

[Grafyte]

This video is a masterpiece. It conveys all the ideas I have about how dumb stops signs are that I can't figure out how to articulate other than "most stops signs could easily be yield signs". That "uncontrolled" intersection in Europe was impressive by the way. Engineers need to be taking notes.

[FA-ftsq]

The worst are intersections WITH roundabouts that also have a Stop sign for some reason. I'm looking at you, West Hollywood.

[LaughingOrange]

I feel like America is over-saturated with stop signs, making people ignore them. As a Norwegian, I always make a full stop at stop signs at home. That's because I know the location of exactly one of those signs in my local area. They're not everywhere, so when I see one, I pay extra attention.

[Tindog]

Even though I had been to Europe, and had used roundabouts, I really still hated them for a long time. Even when I saw the road guy rob video I was like "I like traffic lights/stop signs better because when traffic NEVER stops it's so hard to cross the street, no one ever stops for you, at least with a light I get a chance" however I did more research and even road guy rob address this, a roundabout on 5 lane street makes a street that is really hard for pedestrians to cross. The roundabouts near me that I hated are 5 lane roads running into a roundabout. So putting a roundabout on a 5-lane street really is not going to work for pedestrians. 3 lanes or less work great, 4+ lanes don't work for pedestrians. So a 5 lane road put on a 3 lane diet it will work, but if you just put a roundabout on a 5 lane street pedestrians will not be able to cross it, you need something more to make it work. I haven't really found a good solution to this one yet, still looking. The best solution I found is we should just not make 5 lane roads period, but this is a challenge.

Also, most stopsigns should really be yield signs, but the USA stopped putting in yield signs a long time ago, most people wouldn't even know what to do if they saw one, much less draw them from memory. Stop signs should be a lot more rare than they are.

[glenmorrison]

5:09 Yes! Motorists don't get this. Stopping and starting on a bike take _a lot_ of effort. And slows you down massively. It is not analogous to stopping in a car. And the risk presented by a bike rolling through is negligible compared with a motorist doing the same.

[grimsley]

Take Australia. Our most dominant form of intersection features giveway signs (yield for you guys). Mind you, there will almost never be a case where there is a 4 way giveway, only really 2 way giveways. We still have stop signs, but they're limited to ONLY WHEN REQUIRED (i.e. where motor-traffic may cause high-risk situations to non motor-traffic (where a laneway meets a footpath and you can't see past the property fenceline)). It's not the perfect solution, but it sure helps the flow.

Also, love that we use roundabouts so much more often here.

[pxpbxb]

I love the idea for roundabouts. Especially in those neighborhoods where it’s block after block of stop signs. But for a big intersections you have to consider large vehicles like busses, box trucks, U-hual’s, trash trucks, 18 wheeler. Even fire trucks

[devoinregress]

I was very skeptical going into this video. As a cyclist and pedestrian in LA it feels extremely dangerous to remove the stop sign, the one thing that seems to get cars to some of the time give us our right-of-way. But you’re right, stop signs are inconsistently followed by all traffic and round abouts seem better.

[justawatchin]

Had my car totaled at about 5mph at a 4-way stop sign. We both went thinking we'd arrived first. When enough cars are at a 4-way junction, it's really hard to tell who's next. And some people roll through even as they're letting other cars pass. I rely on looking at the driver's face, which is ridiculous.

[lej_explains]

let’s gooo - such a great topic, we need more residential roundabouts

[elsaduval]

As a European living, walking and biking in LA : THANK YOU ! Stop signs drive me crazy here
Roll over stops by cars have nearly cause my kids to be run over multiple times while crossing on crosswalks. I disagree that they are safer. Roundabouts have the added advantage of better visibility since drivers know where the cars come from. In France no signs means you have to yield to the right which is much more efficient for flow of traffic.