F-4 vs MiG-23 Training #military #aviation

A trainer and trainee at Constant Peg discuss pulling G's in the F-4 and MiG-23 while taking part in the first of its kind dedicated adversary training program.

Wings Over the Rockies Air & Space Museum:

[JohnnyBravoAfterPic]

Turning function was disabled because they didn't allow retreat.

[TheKitsuneHina]

well yeah... the variants they had looks to be a either early MiG-23M or MiG-23BN model which is a interceptor and fighter bomber variant and was NOT designed to dogfight at all, the later variants like the MiG-23ML, MLA and MLD was more agile than the F-4 in every way possible and can turn extremely well.

[jusfrazier]

I didn't know John Bolton flew airplanes.

[dmitryshevchenko]

It’s an interceptor, not designed for dog fights

[robertkalinic]

I am bit surprised they only talk about turning and not about how 23 could use its speed to gain vertical advantage, i mean ok fine they say its not even comparable in agility but even in close fights its not always about turning.
I heard the claim about east germans being particularly skilled with 23 several times.
For example i remember the video about dcs dogfight between f15 and f16, first two i think were won by 16 because of superior horizontal agility but every fight after had f15 completely dominated over 16 once the pilot figured out how much vertical he should use. F16 was left with no energy and unable to answer the attacks from 15 because of its superior thrust.
Similarly i remember playing il2 the same way when flying bf109 g or k against late spitfires.
I am not pilot and this might come as amateur nerd take to professionals so i understand if i am missing something.