Kenpo Techniques Don't Work | Response to 'Art Of One Dojo'

Kenpo is one of the most popular martial arts in the world - and its self defense techniques are some of the most infamous. Mr. Dan from @ArtofOneDojo recently made a video saying these techniques DO work, but to what degree? Is he right? Is he wrong? Is there some nuance? Watch and find out.

MERCH STORE
FOLLOW ME:
LISTEN: The Pod of Five Rings
music provided by
EPIDEMIC SOUND

Martial Arts Fighting MMA Self Defense Combat Sports Karate Judo Kenpo Boxing Kung Fu Muay Thai Boxing

#karate #kajukenbo #selfdefense

[ArtofOneDojo]

Hi! Great video discussion, very respectfully approached and delivered. I do want to respectfully address a few of the points made here.

The comment regarding my saying that Kenpo techniques were not meant to be performed against trained fighters...isn't accurate. I said they were not designed to be performed in SPARRING. As in, they are not meant to be copied and pasted directly into a sparring match. That's a distinct difference.

You made the comment that sequential drills that teach multiple things at a time are valid. That's EXACTLY what Kenpo techniques are. They are basically mini Kata that teach several different concepts in "sample" situations. There are specific lessons for each technique. A lot of it is academic, a lot of it is applicable.

I want to address the comment about the criticism of the "What if" phase and the "why are the modified versions" not taught. You left out my point about the third and most important phase of Kenpo training, which is "formulation and freestyle". Phase 1: we learn the individual aspects the technique is teaching us. Phase 2: We learn how to address those aspects when things go wrong. Phase 3: we are at a point where we can be in any given position or situation and recognize on the fly what our options are and then apply any given specific idea we've learned from those techniques.

The freestyle and formulation is where the student is able to apply the material for real. I have pulled of many fragments of techniques in sparring. Crossing Talon, Five Swords, Deflecting Hammer, Intellectual Departure, Shield and Mace, and the numerous buckles, checks, rebounding strikes, redirections, and takedowns have come in handy during sparring. They worked not as the "copied and pasted" sequence, but because I recognized specific details on the fly and was able to resort to ideas and fragments taught from the techniques. Heck, I saw just a couple of months ago in person a fellow instructor pull of "Squeezing the peach" in a sparring match, and it worked beautifully. If you don't understand how surprising that is...YouTube that technique.


They ARE taught in the modified version. Each technique has a counterpart somewhere in the systems with the "what if" answer. If all we taught was the modified version... then THAT becomes a Kenpo technique and the new "what if" would be what it played out the original way.

Drawing out the curriculum and being the CrossFit of Martial arts, I'm sorry but I respectfully disagree. There IS a lot of material, and you could argue there is too much academic info, but the system is not drawn out and it takes the same amount of time to rank in Kenpo as most styles of Karate. Being able to process the academic and separate it from application falls on the instructor teaching it.

I have used Kenpo techniques in sparring, and in real life, and they have worked. My instructor worked as a bouncer and used several. Many of my classmates had self defense situations where they resorted to what they learned in techniques, and they worked.

While I agree and can respect many of your points, I do feel that maybe some of mine have been misinterpreted, as the video you are responding to is a 9 minute "excerpt" which was clearly marked as such in the beginning, from a 1 hour and 44 minute online discussion. I have also addressed many points in another full video "Does Kenpo Suck". (I will post link as a reply to this comment in case it's picked up by the filter).

Is Kenpo for everyone? No of course not, no style is. But it absolutely has value and works for some people, it's just another way to learn martial arts. Everyone learns differently, and it's a matter of finding a way to digest material that makes sense to you. If Kenpo isn't it, then I fully respect that. But I feel that many times the criticism is targeted at specific elements without experiencing or understanding the full picture.

[flabeachcomber]

I've worked in Law enforcement for over 20 years. I've been involved in countless uses of force going hands on. The last five have been working in one of the toughest prisons in Florida. Probably the country. We house the worst of the worst. American Kenpo techniques seem to work fine on inmates that train in all kinds of different types of systems. So based on my training and experience, Kenpo, if you actually learn it, is extremely effective.

[averyflowers]

I know Kenpo works. I'm a 5ft short female and it has saved me, more than once. That's what counts, It worked for me!! And could many others. Take care Everyone 💖

[robertmcdowell]

I had to use Kenpo to defend myself seven times in the past fifty years. It was between ages 30- and 45. They all took one move and they were down. Now, I am 5'2", slim, somewhat muscular (lift weights) and small boned. Does American Kenpo workj? Absolutely!
I still teach and workout in Kenpo every week. I only teach adults.
Sifu
Puyallup, WA

[bfuji]

My dad is a 10th degree SGM who ran a dojo for many years, & personally trained in a close relationship under Mr. Ed Parker. It is a self defense/ combat capable style, but also an art form. Created by merging Chinese/ Japanese Kenpo with street fighting, it's been proven to be extremely effective in a variety of situations. The long forms used, are creating muscle memory, & refining accuracy/ speed/ power. Those moves are also meant for the possibility of multiple on one attack. It's not truly represented because in its nature, is meant to break/ damage/ immobilize your opponents. It's rarely used in full contact sports, as strikes are meant to attack weak targets (throat, groin, neck, joints, organs, etc). If someone comes at you with a knife, do you use 1-2 moves to knock it away? Or do you break the wrist, elbow, & shoulder ensuring it, or that arm won't be raised against you again? The art, is how many of those breaks you can make in those precious few seconds. In the end, like any martial art, you get out what you put in. My dad has Alzheimer's now, but after 60+ years of training those forms, his muscle memory is still on point.

[Kenpo]

I'm a senior kenpo blackbelt with experience in muay thai, BJJ, MMA etc and a nightclub doorman for 20 years, and I would agree Kenpo techniques dont work in their dojo form, but if you train them with the right entry, with escalating noncompliance they can be applied, but in a taylored way. that is my experience anyway

[howardbrooks]

If this individual actually accumulated these ideas about kenpo while using them in fights, it would be much more believable. I've been practicing the art since 1994.So In the mean time I will continue practicing Kenpo and knowing it is most definitely an effective street fighting art.

[Tondor]

Studied Kajukenbo under a teacher who was also a musician. He would often say that scales and theory are vital, but that isn't where the music is.

[fxst]

45 years of kenpo . Not one street fight, came close but chose to de escalate or retreat. “The art of fighting without fighting” a quote from a movie that started my quest in the martial arts . I believe I can say I was confidently taught well . Thanks for the insight .

[BreadCatMarcus]

I mean, as a blanket counterpoint to your argument. The techniques are in fact meant to train muscle memory for specific motions/blocks/strikes/etc.

At least in my dojo, we also consistently drill strikes, blocks, parries and more. Often sets and techniques incorporate these in some degree.

In combination of the two, with frequent sparring, I find myself subconsciously blocking and striking much more efficiently because of the motions being drilled into me. And of course, full contact sparring (not necessarily point based) more and more will absolutely help you flourish in fighting.

I totally respect your opinion, but calling something the "CrossFit" of something is insanely disrespectful, and I feel you didn't understand the core of what the techniques are meant to develop.

[samiibrahim]

Many times, the labels we place on subjects of discussion really create a barrier to understanding. Many different approaches fall under the Kenpo label and almost none of them train in the exact same manner. Even within the more specific category of Kenpo from the lineage of SGM Ed Parker Sr. you have vast differences in the way his system was trained. I mean drastic changes in every aspect that you can, and many do, argue that the different phases were different arts, since they had different names.

Old School Kenpo Karate was trained very different then the Chinese Kenpo phase and that was very different from American Kenpo and so on. Then within each of those categories you have those direct students of his who taught their own students with their own unique approaches, often blending their previous or later martial arts training into their own approach. So, when anyone comes along and slaps down the sloppy, imprecise label Kenpo and starts painting with a wide brush about its techniques as if we all train the same way or do the same techniques you have to say "knock it off" because it's laughably, ludicrous. Frank Trejo did not teach the same way that Larry Tatum does, and they came up the ranks together under the same teacher. Mike Pick did not teach 10th Special Forces Kenpo the same way that Jeff Speakman taught. Even now Jeff Speakman does not teach the same way he taught in his early years because even among a single instructor the training methodology and technical understanding can change over time.

When I taught Kenpo during the war, I did not teach it the same way that I learned it from my own teacher. I have my preferences and my understanding of Kenpo demanded that my teaching fit the context and environment that the practitioners would be operating in. Don't judge ALL Kenpo on a text book layout of a Kenpo curriculum, Don't judge ALL Kenpo on training with one or two teachers, Paul Mills tested his Kenpo as a bouncer for decades and I know his approach and techniques are very different from the approach of Richard Planas.

These days Martial Artists cross train and cross reference each others approaches to an even greater extent than was the case in ancient times. So of course many Kenpo instructors have compared skills with Muay Thai practitioners and Judo or Jujutsu practitioners and so on, just like the Kaju folks did in Hawaii and those who felt like they needed to adjust this or that aspect of training did so and many found no need to change their approach because they found that what they did was working fine for them. I understand the need to title YouTube videos with controversial titles to get more views but it can also have a side effect of having so many people listen to what is being said and dismiss the Instructor as simply inexperienced. Just my two cents.

[gusjar]

In Kenpo we understand and know that it is very difficult for us to use a technique that is seen in the videos, in a complete way. Your analysis missed or ignored something very important: Stage 3 of "Formulation".

In Kenpo there are three well-defined stages through which the student goes through his learning.

Stage 1 or embryonic stage (Ideal Situation, which is what practitioners are seen executing a complete technique with an immobile sparring), is the beginning of the training of a kenpoist. It is similar to the way a child learns to crawl, feel and grasp. The student learns to execute different foot maneuvers; stances, blocks, strikes in conjunction with standing and kicking. Here an ideal situation is simulated, although it will rarely happen like this in the lane, however it gives us an idea of ​​the different reactions of the opponent to our response to an attack. Here the student had a training base and was able to analyze an attack and a response to said situation.

Stage 2 or mechanical stage (what if), is where the student learns the basic maneuvers to properly execute a self-defense or form, expanding on the fundamentals of stage one. When he combines the basics and incorporates them into self defense, he learns to move with great efficiency. In addition he learns to create and control distance, moving away or closer to an opponent. Here the student explores the "What - happens if" or "What if", the various dangerous situations and all the possibilities they contain for defense.

Stage 3 or the spontaneous stage (Formulation), involves the development of an instinctive way of moving. Here in this stage the movements of the techniques learned and repeated infinitely by the student, are executed spontaneously. The student spontaneously blocks, kicks, punches, and checks in direct response to his opponent's actions. You can also spontaneously adjust or re-align the order of your techniques depending on how the attack progresses, this is a Formulation phase, in which you not only learn to analyze "what and if" but to adapt a technique during the course of an attack. For example, by inserting a technique into another, a new combination of basics is obtained, as a reaction to a certain attack. Here is a real fight in the street, where we must defend ourselves. We know that we will not execute the complete technique that we practice in the Dojo, but our movements are automatic to certain attacks and these movements are born from the 154 techniques that we have practiced for years by heart, it can be the complete technique or just the first blow of one, no it's known. What is correct is that being a flow of movements, we know how to chain and create the next attack, and the next one that will lead us to annul the opponent. In short, the development of Kenpo techniques encompasses years of training and understanding of the embryonic and mechanical phases, which gradually lead the student to the spontaneous phase. During this whole process, he will learn to move properly and manage his environment. He will also handle the concept of viewing a situation from three points of view; his own, that of the opponent and that of a third party outside the event (an observer or observer). To conclude, a good Kenpo student perfects and assimilates self-defense techniques through these phases or stages.

Therefore, to analyze Kenpo only based on the observation of the execution of its 154 self-defense techniques, in Stage 1 of the "Ideal Phase", is to fall into ignorance (in the good sense of the word), or the lack of understanding of art.

Greetings.

[KenpoJ]

I am a 3rd Dan in IKCA Kenpo under Sifu Greg Payne. Kenpo can be more simplified than the most practiced, Ed Parker's American Kenpo. That's what IKCA Kenpo is. It is Kenpo in a more raw form. It has all the same principles and concepts of American Kenpo but does not repeat them over and over again within its techniques and form. That isn't to say that American Kenpo is wrong or bad. But yes, there's a lot of stuff drawn out. When you break the concepts into their simplest forms, it's extremely good. Similar words can be found in other responses in this thread.

In addition to my Kenpo I was also taught a form of street applicable Judo. That means less throws and techniques that emphasized being on the floor for extended periods of time and relying on garments to hold. This blend of Judo fit very nicely with my Kenpo. To this day it is very useful. I worked security and bouncing and later with youth in an alternative to detention program. I've had plenty of opportunities to use and evaluate the effectiveness of my training. However, with that said, I never have been to a point where I have had to pull out my striking ability. My grappling had been enough. What has come into play were knowledge of principles of motion, autonomic responses to stimulus, and awareness honed in Kenpo training.

I'm a believer in you need both striking and grappling. Need pants and long sleeves if you're in the cold.

The other thing I believe as a Kenpo guy or self-defense practitioner is that body toughening, strength training is also very necessary for self-defense purposes when learning striking arts. That means developing bones to be able to hit and also be hit, muscle and aerobic fitness to have stability, stamina and the not-so-simple confidence to survive. To me, techniques mean very little if you are brittle. This applies to all arts. Your sword don't matter if you can't pick it up and swing through your targets.

Osu

[MrBracey]

Ed Parker, much like the Gracies with BJJ, developed his style by taking it to the streets and pressure testing it for real.

Since his passing I'm sure some Kenpo school have suffered from McDojo infection but calling it the CrossFit of MA is incredible ignorant and disrespectful. I've seen Kenpo work for real, no it didn't take 15 strikes to do it but that's all part of learning flow and coordination. much like in certain Chinese and Filipino arts.

[EBR]

So Ed Parker's techniques are ineffective? What the hell is he so famous/well respected for then?

[mc.]

I agree with most everything you said. I'm not going to claim knowledge of other people that did unknown things. I'm going to tell you the one and only time I attempted to use a Kenpo technique in its entirety. I was in a bar in college and I used Five Swords on a guy that grabbed me and cocked back to throw a punch.
It scared the crud out of me because I thought I killed him for a second. In other words, it worked.
When I joined the military in my 20s I started training BJJ and MT. Admittedly, they are a lot more practical in terms of fighting and, unfortunately, I had opportunity to test them too frequently. However, I also found that the concepts I learned in Kenpo were practical and helpful in my study and application of other combat arts.
In short, Kenpo techniques are effective against, as you said, unskilled and untrained opponents which, imo, are the vast majority of the people on this planet.

[MINDSPARK-ue]

_Martial arts in self-defense no matter the style is about instinct reaction, where your body learns to respond to an attackers attack position, Constant repetition of your body, responding to an attackers attacks directions toward you using multiple techniques._

_Your body will autonomously respond to the repetition you’ve been practicing, the only thing you have to try not to do is think_

[PedroMartinez-lmfr]

I'm a tae kwon do and hapkido 4th dan, went to several open tournaments where i sparred kenpo practitioners and all that fancy slapping they do in their forms was never used during the fight, so...why do they even learn those techniques if they don't use them when it matters??

[chrislynn]

I started training in United Studios' Kenpo (Karazenpo Go Shinjitsu) when I was 17 and it was often conveyed as patterned, step-by-step techniques in response to punch, grabs, kick attacks, et al. It often left me feeling unconfident if confronted in a real life attack situation. The training didn't begin and end there however. When was proficient enough in blocking and in basic strikes (around Purple or Blue Belt), free-style was encouraged-- freestyle and drilling-- I felt like a lot of that training increases confidence and I definitely found it and that was in the same Kenpo school.
I think the way Kenpo is conveyed and passed down is the reason why it gets so much criticism. It's often taught in such a way where the techniques are the apex and the goal, not as training mechanisms. A lot of the criticism here against Kenpo (particularly against American Kenpo) is not wrong, but I feel like there's a larger picture here. Ed Parker himself has often stated that the Techniques are not the end, not the goal, but rather expressions of the principles. In other words, he didn't intend for students to perform Line A, section 1, part 2, then B, part 3 and some kind of robotic choreographed technique in response to a right or left hook or thrusting punch. He DID have them train that way, but then the training would digress into reacting to strikes with freestyle, and then unpredicted strikes in a free-style manner. When taken as a whole Kenpo has great benefits-- it's just not always taught and conveyed the way Mr. Parker originally intended.
The reason why you don't see Kenpo in sparring is because it is an empty-hand method, one that is not for the combat ring and therefore not trained for wearing boxing gloves. You can't really do palm-strikes, ridge-hand strikes, hammer fists, knife-hand strikes when wearing whatever OZ. sized gloves. Kenpo is meant for the bare knuckle street confrontation and the pattern of attacks are not conducive for competitive ring combat.
Also--- has anyone posed to you, or any "bro" beating the shit out of everything at an MMA school: What would YOU do if somebody bear hugs you, grab your hair, pull you from your wrist, choke you with two-hands.... ? You see what I'm getting at? Everybody's so busy dumping on Kenpo for its "unrealistic" strike defense. At least it offers responses against street attacks. Are you trained to handle 'wild' street situations for when someone chokes from the front or behind, from a grab or a headlock?? My guess is that whatever "Combat" or "MMA" gym out there, there's no handle on real world defense scenarios. And if there is-- - I'm guessing they are pulling from a Traditional So here we are again back at Square One. Half of what Kenpo is training against are grabs-- hair, shirt, shoulder, wrist and grabs from behind or chokes. Much of the criticism against Kenpo is really apples to oranges

[apablo]

Real Kenpo is dirty and brutal like how it was created in Hawaii. I hate the Kenpo studios who water down the art and make it more appealing to the general public. I understand people need to make money but Kenpo is about survival, not going to tournaments where there are rules.