Why did Huberman endorse Susanna Søberg's bad science?

About a year ago Andrew Huberman introduced a Danish biologist to the world, naming her the most important expert on brown fat and cold exposure in the halls of medicine. She had written only two papers on the topic, and only one in a reputable journal, but Susanna Søberg quickly became a household name to ice bathers all over the world who were looking for scientific backing for their icy dips. I was pretty excited by the credibility that Søberg brought to the table, but when I started actually looking at her famous paper in Cell Reports Medicine, things stopped adding up. Her claims about the underlying mechanisms of how brown fat burns calories were so far off the scientific consensus that it was jaw dropping. Throughout her paper she repeats time and time again that her instrumentation is not on par with the gold standard, and that her results should "be taken with caution." She kicked off a cold water swimmer from her study when he didn't produce enough heat, and worried it would throw off her results, and in the conclusion of her paper she straight up admits "we cannot conclude whether winter swimming per se results in increased cold-induced thermogenesis." All of this to say, after reading her article, I really had to wonder how it got published in the first place.

But that's not even where the problems stopped. Shortly after her appearance on The Huberman Lab came out Søberg left the scientific world altogether and started an online training course where she sells her video certifications in cold water swimming for $2500 a pop. This is the very definition of a conflict of interest. How are we supposed to believe in scientific results when the scientists directly profit from a positive signal?

The article in Cell Reports was hardly the only case of Søberg conducing bad science. Recently a comment on the crowdsourced science watchdog PubPeer noted that another study of hers--this one on binge drinking and liver enzymes--had nonsensical data. Somehow a graph that was supposed to have 8 data correlations only had 7. It didn't make and sense.

All of this to say, while Søberg might be a great person to encourage people to jump into ice water, her scientific claims aren't based on the science she purports them to be.

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#neuroscience #icebath #hubermanlab #soberg

[GTC]

As someone who does autopsies, I can tell you that adult humans have an insignificant amount of brown fat if they have any brown fat at all.

[danielmacdougall]

EIGHT MEN eight men let that sink in
how ridiculous how does ANYONE really give any credit to a study involving a core group of 8.
this sounds like it comes from the the dan ariely gina francesco school of data collection 😳

[barry.anderberg]

I don't care what the science says. I started cold exposure two years ago and I will never go back. I just feel better. I'm in a better mood. I have more energy. It's just an awesome way to jump start your day.

[TheNormallyOpen]

I can see the wisdom in the story of the 'Emperor's new clothes' now, once that you start seeing it, it becomes shocking how pervasive it is.
I will keep an eye out for your Huberman video, all the best.

[tunneltu]

Its not even possbile to have an optimal time that is "best" for everybody. Whats the best time for a 100 kg male vs a 45 kg female? Too many variables, what temperature is used etc. That kind of reserch would have to be massive to find something that is optimal.

[Simone.in.Norway]

I don’t care about brown fat, white fat, or any of that—I started sauna and cold plunges out of curiosity, and now they’re part of my routine. They make me feel amazing—more relaxed, more toned, and I sleep so much better!

[steladimi]

my wake up call regarding Huberman came when he interviewed a well-known expert in nutrition and biochemistry. On basic questions the expert asked Huberman, I had better answers about nutrition than Huberman and I am not an expert. That gave me paws! How can such thing be?? The other thing was that, the more I watched him, the more convoluted the information he was giving became. If I had to follow all his advice, I would need to drop everything else in my life and just try to keep track of ALL those things he suggests or recommends or risk missing out on optimal health and quality of life. I just couldn't keep up with it. At one point, I told myself "Forget it. This does not correspond to reality." I don't miss his podcasts at all.

[samalqattan]

Very interesting. The little difference in BAT between Wim and his brother was illuminating. Thanks for the video 🙏🏼

[spockofdune]

I swim in winter, I'm 60, for 20 minutes. Best thing ever. Everyone should try it. Minus 5 C is pretty much the best time to go. Under ice is real cool. Caution: don't exceed 30 sec under the ice. After 20 more minutes drying in the wind brutal shot down of circulation from feet and hands, sudden and almost total loss of control but can be forced to walk home and hold clothes with arms. Must get to above 0 C in the minutes following this, movement is necessary to give heat to body to distribute to vital organs.... 15 C is enough to be safe. I usually pass the first 5 minutes getting the wood to burn in my stove, then the heat takes over. 2 hours of bliss follows. Never ever got any problem with this procedure of mine, done over 30 times. BUT: I gained 10 pounds of fat that year and started to get fat since. My body reacted by making me a fat suit. I tough I would burn brown fat, but it's the opposite. Or something else got into the process... maybe invisible penguins abducted me or something...lol

[therabbithat]

Great job 😊 If you fact check Huberman's claims you'll have material for a LOT of videos! 😁

[joshnova]

Grifters with Phds —even ones from Stanford — are still grifters

[ozachar]

I completely lost any trust in Huberman.

[vuksekicki]

In my humble opinion 8 sample research paper is not worth reading.

[Seanonyoutube]

Scientists + Social Media + Greed = this

[lauraon]

I thought everyone learned that mammals that swim evolved to have protective layers of fat for warmth? Shouldn’t whales and seals be thin?

[YOGABODY.Official]

The paradox of all of this "cold burns fat" discussion is there's a very reasonable argument to be made the other way. Bergmann's Rule (1847) is not accepted by everyone, but I'd argue it's a much more solid theory than more cold = less weight. Wherever you live, just drive north toward the cold and report back how many rail thin people you find. Not many. And yes, you might increase BAT and gain weight simultaneously. Both things can be possible. 11 min walk would outperform any cold plunge every day.

[bbdo]

The lady is obviously inspired with the derivative bathings, naturopathic approach, because she is from a northern country. Here is a descriptive.
*The derivative baths are an ancient technique born from an intuition by Luis Kuhne at the turn of the late 1800s and early 1900s. The original technique involved sponging with cold water in the inguinal part from the inner thigh to the perineal area. The inguinal fascia of our body is of paramount importance. One of the main joints of the lymphatic system and circulatory system can be considered. Through this technique micro-contractions can be generated that stimulate these two systems. The most important aspects for the effectiveness of derivative baths are two: frequency and temperature difference. *
The adepts of the derivative baths are advocating among other miracles an increase in brown fat.
Swimming in ice cold waters vs bathing are not necessarily the same... I've been practicing this for 20 years plus and this has been practiced for quite a long time 50 years in the northern countries... andin the past nobody needed WH techniques... (it is all very hype..). my siberian friends laugh at this and I have had to help new beginners who were hyperventilating in the water.. so dangerous ... The good feel effectof a ice cold swimming is due inmho to the adrenalin.. the body obviously goes through a great lot of stress due to the cold at 5C celisus or less. One must understands one's body... andperhaps sometimes avoid if one is not in the best shape.. I personally. cannot claim the health effects advocated (no colds etc..) I do not believe they are statistically significant... One effect however is great pleasure so it is mental for sure.

[jontschoeman]

So what's your opinion on cold exposure therapy. Benefits?

[yankevu]

Both Søberg's routines ( heat and cold exposures ) and your comment are useful. I started to do heat ( about 80 degree celsius ) and cold exposures ( about 16-20 degree celsius ) recently. To me, infrared sonna help me sleep. People will spend $2000 for her memebership is unbelivable.

[Knutacious]

Perhaps BAT is Dumbo's Magic Feather.

What is clear is that something impactful is working through cold endurance. But the mystery of why it works looms as large as it ever has.