The Nameless Things of Middle-earth

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[raskirorikson]

Good call from Gandalf, not mentioning them again. Otherwise, Pippin would have found a way to free and anger them

[swehumorofficial]

When a master musician starts to tune their instrument, before the structure of the music itself, there are old, nameless sounds... unholy creaking of worn leather cases, disfigured and discoloured metal hinges, the unintentional scraping of finger over string. With an entire orchestra tuning, believe me, many nameless things are created, none intended to be part of the performance.

[TheTrollingMaster-xrel]

When Gandalf says that the watcher in the water was driven up makes me think that it is on low end of the food chain down there.

[brandoncoffey]

Gandalf clearly feared or at least was cautionary when it came to these nameless things. To me, every time I read Gandalf's description of his battle with the balrog, it fascinates me.

Here Gandalf is, fighting an enemy that only him and a select few older and wiser members of middleearth even know about, and this enemy is so powerful that even Gandalf is unsure he can stand up to its strength and then suddenly, very briefly Tolkien mentions that the battle sort of shifted from a battle to an escape. Clearly, the balrog knew those passages well, or at least well enough to get out of them and up to the top of the mountain. But at this brief point in the battle, both enemies are less concerned about fighting and more about getting the heck out of dodge. For one brief moment, instead of focusing on killing one another, they seem to be running.

We don't know the balrogs' perspective, but it says that Gandalf clutched at its heel, his enemy was his only hope. This may just be because Gandalf knew he'd be hopelessly lost if he was left alone in these nameless places, but this brief moment also suggests that both of them were afraid, or at least cautious of what else may be down there. In order for Gandalf to have clutched its heel, literally or figuratively suggests that the balrog was fleeing something. What is never mentioned, but the fact that Gandalf was also concerned tells us it wasn't just fleeing from Gandalf. And if the creature knew those passages well enough to find the exit. It also suggests that it knew what else was down there.

So briefly 2 of the most powerful beings in the world were fleeing or finding an exit instead of fighting. It makes you wonder what they could be fleeing from. This is the genius of tolkiens writing here. It's left up to some interpretation. Did they encounter a nameless creature that they both had to fleeing, if so what creature would be so dangerous that these two would have a temporary and unspoken truce as they fled. Or is Gandalf so strong that the balrog is trying to fleeing because it knows it's best chance of defeating him is to escape him and leave him in these uncharted passages that Gandalf tells us are without hope.

Personally I don't think this balrog is all that afraid of Gandalf cause other than this brief passage. All they do is fight. Or perhaps it's just the uncertainty of it, maybe both Gandalf and the balrog didn't want to know what they may encounter down there. They were both probably capable of defending themselves if it came to it, but why find out. Sadly, we are told a few things from Gandalf, and he deliberately leaves things out because they would darken the light of day if mentioned.

This section will continue to be one of the most curious and fascinating things in Tolkiens literature for me. Like I said it is left up to interpretation, even the age of these creatures. One could interpret that some of these nameless creatures are near gods themselves, since we are told they are older than sauron, and that sauron and the others were made first. In one interpretation of this, is that these creatures existed with illuvatar before he created anything. Perhaps these creatures enjoy darkness so much that when middle earth was made, they fled the light and went deep underground to hide from it. This may explain why the balrog knew those passages well and was unhindered mostly. The balrog is clothed in flame and shadow. Perhaps these creatures avoided him just like they dug deeper into the earth when dwarves and goblins found their homes in their passages. To avoid light. Who knows. The possibilities are fascinating, though. Another great video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

[etherraichu]

I like how it suggests that even the Balrog wasn't okay with being there. I imagine it and Gandalf sort of teaming up until they get back to the places that arent horrible, then resuming the fight

[errantwinds-upuu]

The Watcher in the Water scene (both books and films) is SO unsettling. It's easy to let it slide because so many important things happen directly after, but I agree that Tolkien did such an excellent job at leaving some unknowns to make the world more real.

[FrederickApollyon]

What if... Both the Nameless Things and Tom Bombadil are remnants of the first song of the Ainur- the one that Melkor decided to change with his discord first and succeeded before Eru made new music, even more beautiful and intricate? That would explain Tom Bombadil's character - since it was the first attempt it must have been pretty naive, single-minded, crass even - that's why the parts of it (like Tom Bombadil and Ungoliant) seem to be very one-note, uncaring for anything besides their own nature (like Ungoliant's ever-growing hunger for example). It would also explain why they're so powerful - they were there first. The second, more intricate song that created the world and other races made them way more complex, but also weaker for it.
How does that sound?

[jacobshore]

I’ve always seen them and Ungoliant as being the closest Tolkien has come to emulating Lovecraft.

[StamfordBridge]

I was all a circuitous cover-up by Gandalf to hide the embarrassing fact that he forgot their names.

[caleschley]

I'm sure that Gandalf was talking about Sauron in his corporal form when he said that they pre-date Sauron. Gandalf seemed to have a hard time even recalling his life before coming to Middle-Earth, so it seems unlikely to me he was referring to that time.

[reallythatbad]

I'm going to call one of them 'Carl'.

[alexmishy]

There's an interesting theory that says they are a by-product of the discord in the music.

[etherraichu]

7:14 in Elder Scrolls Lore. there's The Battle of Red Mountain. It was a very large battle at red mountain involving the dwarves, the chimer, the nords and the orcs that ended when all the dwarves suddenly disappeared, the sixth house was dissolved, Nerevar was dead, and there was a new religion in Morrowind

. And the devs intentionally don't explain exactly what went down. Not only that, but they don't even have some secret hidden lore that says so. So they don't even know what happened, though each dev involved likely has their own ideas about it.

[MMirach]

Damn. The difference between complexities and over complication. Genius level of thought to have created in this way.

[RHCole]

Sauron wasn't always called Sauron, same as Morgoth. Perhaps it meant they predate his fall.

[jakemeyer]

The Nameless Things are one of my favorite parts of the Legendariam. Keeping them mysterious and unexplained as a literary device was absolutely the right decision. They are far scarier when left wholly to the imagination.

[jackmclaughlin]

I always thought they were prototypes but Morgoth that he abandoned because he’s either embarrassed by his failure or because he’s wary of what he created

[gargoyles]

Aren’t these the things that Gandalf and the balrog both looked at and then ran away together?

[FireBird]

It's not only a play on the 'fear of the unknown' but goes even further than that for it being in the water - where we are hindered while they are in their element.

[ThommyofThenn]

1:15 I really love that language. Gnawing makes me think of the 'bones of the earth' getting chewed on by unfathomable sorts