PROBLEMS Going 2X

Some issues and fixes going 2x.

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[mryotahead]

I'm obsessed with 3x9 . The range I can get is unmatched to any 1x out there, and I also enjoy using friction shifters . That's what's nice about bikes, ride what you like!!

[atexnik]

Triple is the best and unbeatable option for heavy touring.

[alexjboros]

As someone who grew up with 3x drivetrains, I can understand the 1x craze only in terms of saving weight and greater ground clearance for off-road riding. But 1x generally sucks for low gearing. I mean, there's a good reason why true touring bikes (the kind with chromoly framsets, including chromoly forks) still have 3x drivetrains. As for 2x, it seems a lot has been forgotten or overlooked regarding 3x. I will soon be experimenting with a 2x10 MTB drivetrain (38/24 + 11-36) for winter pedaling in northern New England. In my neck of the woods there are several long, steep hills I wouldn't want to pedal standing up, especially with groceries, books, camping supplies, etc. A part of me still believes in 3x as being just as good as it ever was 🚴‍♂️

[balrog]

The biggest total range I ever got on my touring bike was a triple 22-32-44 crankset paired to a 11-36 9-speed cassette. It was way more than 600%

Going 2x, your best options to keep that lower gear are the following

22/38->11/36 cassette
26/42->11/40 cassette
28/44-> 11/42 cassette
30/46 -> 11/46 cassette
32/48 -> 11/50 cassette

The majority of those combinations require swapping chainrings on a 2x mtb crankset, and deal with front derailleur compatibility as you mentioned.

If you want to go "cheap", use current components, and get out-of-the-box compatibility, the best option is 10-speed GRX400 46/30 crankset and grx400 derailleurs, paired to an HG-500 11-42 cassette. Use tiagra ST4700 levers If you have mechanical disc brakes.

If you want to jump to 11-speed, go for grx600 46/30 crankset and grx800 derailleurs, paired to any 11/42 or 11/46 cassette. Use 105 ST7000 levers If you have mechanical disc brakes. Another nice addition for higher gears is an XD 10-42 cassette. A 46/10 ratio is equivalent to 50/11.

[ghostdog]

I'm glad I kept my old mountain bike!! A custom frame with no shocks. I hand-picked all the best available parts at the time... (Mid 80s). Sugino triple crankset and suntour 6-speed COG, suntour cyclone derailers front and rear. I figured out the gear ratios, handpicked chain ring sizes and even the individual cog gear sizes. It's still running strong and still my favorite bike! I even have a couple spare old cogs laying around for when mine where's out. I feel sorry for you guys having to deal with such overly priced and limited equipment available.

[dougturner]

I'm a fan of your philosophy.
I use 3x6 (46-36-26) x (13-15-17-19-21-24). The largest gear ratio (46/13) is about 3.54 to 1. That's about 30 mph before I spin out. The lowest gear ratio (26/24) is about 1.08 to 1. That's low enough for the steepest hills I encounter. The overall difference between the number of teeth of the chainrings is 20. The difference between the number of teeth of the cogs is 11. The sum is 31. The limit for a short cage rear derailleur is 30. I use a DuraAce 7700 short cage rear derailleur, and it works excellent.

I do not use index shifting. I use downtube friction shifters for their absolute simplicity. I gave up index shifting with my Campagnolo 10 speed for a few reasons. The number one reason is the extraordinary and unacceptable about of dish in the rear wheel. The number two reason is the frustration with the amount of maintenance to keep it shifting correctly. When it works well it is a dream, but when it is out of sync it is a royal pain-in-the-ass.

I often used to drop the chain to the inside when I used a compact double (50/34). The difference in the number of teeth is 16. Since I've been using a triple the difference in the number of teeth between chainrings is 10. I've never dropped the chain.

[chrisbrookshire]

Your video from back in the day is why I put a mountain double on a road bike of mine and have been watching since.

[aeonsnarfus]

Info like this is gold because those who want to ride truly personal bikes at Party Pace, and not just accept the unobtanium the industry shovels on the regular—representation is important—to see it is possible—mechanically, and economically. Russ creates the true groupsets of the people.

[paulcombes]

You are so on the money, most logical setup for most cycling situations is 2 x . Thanks PLP for this honest take on the conversion .

[blair-alan]

thanks for your excellent content, Russ. You speak my language as rider of a touring bike. I'm using 2x converted from my 3x Deore crank with Wickwerks chainrings (38-24). Chainrings are mounted on the inner and middle slots with a "spacer" mounted in the space for the outer chainring position. Chainline is good although I have experimented with spacers in the bottom bracket. Front derailleur is XT 2x that is both top/bottom pull compatible. (still available most serious bike parts websites). Rear derailleur is XT m786 10sp with a 11-36 cassette. Gear ratio and inches is excellent for loaded touring and with 93 gear inches for top end (25mph at 90 cadence) I'm well satisfied. I'm 66 years old and don't need (or can't) spin at 25mph for very long without a huge tailwind or decent decent. In either case, I coast :-) I'm using Microshift XLE dropbar 10 speed shifter on the right and a microshift barend friction for the left (front derailleur. I had been using barends on both but "splurged" on the Microshift dropbar shifters and am very happy with them. So, I'm considering going to 1x that would give me same gear range/ratio with an 11-51 cassette and a 38t chainring (Deore 11speed). Do you see any reason not to do this? I would go back to barend shifters for short term, although Microshift does have an 11sp dropbar shifter available (for $200!) Also, would love to hear your opinion on Wickwerks chainrings.

[jeffandersen]

Thanks for addressing a long term bicycle issue and showing what you've tried. That is real world gearing. I recently tried a 1X bike and did not like the clunky slow shifting.
I changed a 52/42 bike in the early 1970s to a 46/36/26 triple using TA rings without a hitch in installation. I used the bikes Shimano friction derailleurs (I still use friction bar ends on a bike). It was so much better with a high around 89 gear inches and a number a low fast spinning gears.
I think you have taken over well for Frank Berto who long ago advocated for low gears and fatter tires and demonstrated the advantages through scientific trials.
Keep up the good work.

[johnthompson]

Pfft. I'm still running 3x. I was seriously considering going to 1x but I've come to appreciate what I've got. Actually I'm thinking about just swapping my crankset to give me some better low gearing. I'm a big ole corn fed country boy, I'll take all the low end I can get.

[curtisgmchale]

I fall into the “racer” and look at expensive stuff but love your content. I’ve grabbed lots of ideas for my long days to make them much better.

[GeekonaBike]

For heavy load bikepacking I run a double Chainring w/ no derailleur or shifter. Just move by hand to the little ring a the bottom of the mountain.

[etr]

I and several other ex-road racer friends like 2x for our gravel bikes, too. I ride 10-20 miles on paved roads to get to my favorite gravel roads and single track. We ride bikes that use 700c wheelsets for the most part. My 2 x setup is a 50/34 crankset with a 10-speed 11-42 Shimano Deore CS-4100M cassette. This combination gives my bike a 561% range. That provide both a low enough gear to handle the dirt climbs I do on this bike and eliminates spin-out on the road. I do walk-a-bike one some extreme climbs, but those are rare. I use a Shimano XT M771 9 speed SGS (long cage) rear derailleur because it's compatible with my Ultegra 6600 10-speed STI shifters. A Wolftooth Roadlink is used to allow the derailleur to work with the larger cassette. Front derailleur is 6600 Ultegra. When I first built this configuration, I couldn't get the shifting right, no matter what adjustment to the b-screw and shift cable. After a lot of trouble shooting, I found the problem to be grime in my right STI shifter. I partially disassembled it, cleaned it with carb cleaner, lubed it with light machine oil, and it works like a charm now. I'm super happy with this gear range because it allows me to have a great range of road gears and a good-enough range of off-road gears. Thought I'd add to the conversation about home-built 2x gravel drive trains.

[marcusathome]

Great video with lots of practical solutions. It's hands down and shows the pitfalls you may fall into and potential workarounds. And it leaves me in disbelief that some frame manufacturers not even prepare for a later 2x setup. This is clearly a no-go criteria for me when choosing a frame. One thing I might add: Easy to find used front derailleurs for small money and since this is such a simple constructions they won't wear or tear.

[traviskelly]

I've got the SRAM Dual Drive on a recumbent and love it -- a huge range with 3x9. Both controls are indexed and together on the right bar. The hub gear is easily shifted without pedaling (at a stop), and less problematic than a 3X front derailleur. SRAM discontinued the DD last year, I don't know why. Durability has not been a problem, as long as you're not shifting the hub gears under monster mash strain. And it was not that expensive!

[gwionwilliams]

I put on a 40-24 super-compact chainset on my tourer. This was from a 44-32-22 triple. I wasn’t sure what to do regarding the front derailleur. Anyhow I stuck with the Shimano Altus triple front derailleur with Sora triple STI’s that was already on the bike just to see what happened. With only slight adjustments to the limit screws it worked brilliantly! Lots of indexing/trimming available, and I’ve not had the problem of the chain slipping in between the two chainrings. With a friction shifter it would be even better I imagine. The Altus triple derailleur is extremely cheap and has top and bottom swing options. And from my experience works great with a super-compact double.

[robinheil]

You're doing the lord's work russ. With gravel and bikepacking becoming so popular, we need those extra gears now more than ever

[gabemccoy]

I love this video, Russ. Your choices are not for me (this guy drank the kool aid on 1x), but I love tinkering on bikes, and I have done plenty of things others would find questionable. I love that we can all make our bikes our own. The most rad bike is the one that's perfect for your preferences!