LiFePO4 Cold Temperature Misconceptions: Do you really need internal heaters?

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[WillProwse]

And for those of you who live in Antarctica where jet fuel freezes, and will be commenting below shortly about how this video is incorrect, you need a heater pad 😂 and a ton of insulation. I'm sure someone will disagree. Keep in mind that regardless of the temperature, if you can insulate it well enough, it should be able to handle anything. At least on this planet.

And yes, you still need low temp charging protection. That's why I prefaced this video with the dangers of charging without it. Solar batteries are charged unattended, so it is crucial to have full protection for your system at all times. Figured that was implied, but I just got an ignorant comment about that.




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[markedwards]

Thank you. For talking about heaters. My first step with lifepo4 batteries was to put them in a picnic cooler. Upon discharging, the temperature immediately climbed to 148 F. The cooler trapped the heat of discharge and I knew a cooler was not going to be a year around solution. These batteries are in an unheated uninsulated storage shed on the Colorado plains. It gets hot insidenin the summer and cold inside in the winter. I use Morningstar ProStar controllers because of their low temperature foldback in winter. I also use thin orange silicone heaters on a thermostat, powered from the solar panels, through buck converters. Overnight temps in the winter are typically minus 6 C and the heaters will have the batteries warm enough to charge by 9 am. Please talk more about how to handle extreme cold in future videos. I can use the help.

[MrBwalendy]

Hi Will, I don't know if you remember me from way back. I have always been one of your most ardent supporters. I want to offer another option in terms of keeping your batteries warm. I use heating mats designed for the germination of plant seedlings. I place each of my 24v 100hh batteries on an incredibly inexpensive seedling heat mat. I run a large ranch at over 7000 feet in the southern Rockies. Winds often bring us well below zero.

[elmer]

I live in Ohio and my SOK batteries are mounted in a 5th wheel trailer in the unheated front compartment. My batteries metal cased but are inside a plastic storage container inside the front compartment. They do get below freezing in the winter and do need the heating pads which I have installed with a digital controller. I doesn’t heat often but it does activate once in a while. I know because I track it with a remote weather sensor.

[parkerottoackley]

There's no one on YouTube like this channel !! Thank you Sir
Very informative

[edwardbyrd]

As much as I enjoy watching you rip into, literally or figuratively, a battery or a battery maker, or a car maker for that matter, , these videos where are you discuss I don’t know, call it the fundamentals are actually more helpful, to me anyway, then the teardowns. I for one would not of made the connection to the need to keep current flowing to the battery despite it being in safety mode if it weren’t for this follow up. All my batteries are in a subterranean concrete bunker (we call it the basement) so I don’t need this type of functionality, but it was still very informative.Thank you

[RobertLowery]

I am working on building an over-landing rig and probably will not have heat in the vehicle during winter, below freezing, excursions. I will probably be charging up a cell phone at night once I am going to bed, but that will probably only take an hour or so. I have been going back and forth on whether I need to consider heating a LiFePO4 battery. I think this video makes it clear that my scenario is one that would make having a battery heating system wise.

[andyslagter]

New subscriber. Helpful as I learn more about my goal of moving from deep cycle lead acid to lifepo4 in my boat. Thanks for posting beginner videos like this. Batteries, charger, performance running electronics, etc. Your videos are easy to follow and presented well.

[KUL]

I plan on putting about 460-560 AH in the front compartment of our new 5W RV. That is an unheated compartment that is currently vented for L.A. batteries. The adjacent storage compartment is heated and thus I am seeing a 10-15 deg F higher track than the outside temps without plugging the vent tube & battery box lower air intake. If I reduce the leaks I think I won't need a heated battery, just a low-temperature cut-off. It gets cold at 8, 500 feet in May and October where we camp host, but most of the summer will be worry-free. The internal heat of the battery, the 3KW inverter, & 3 Victron Charge controllers for 1, 440-watt of solar on the roof & ground (steering around trees & canyon walls as needed) will also help. I will have a temp-controlled fan to the vent outside for the summer months as well. I will tweak as needed.

[raducbarbuta]

Canbat has a nice heating system, which kicks on only when the battery is connected to the charger, and take power only from the charger. It works only when needed. That’s a very useful feature especially if it kicks in when nothing else does.

[Tom-yrpt]

THANK YOU!!! I'm getting so tired of people online saying they need heated batteries and only give pre fab marketing sentences or no actual data and don't understand you can discharge batteries when they are cold. I live in Canada so it gets cold but as soon as you enter an rv or van you turn the heaters on, the battery can discharge, the bms takes care of the low temp and won't take a charge, after a night with the heaters on the battery will be warm enough to take a charge in the morning.

[kumars]

Hello bro I watch your every video. One day when I own my own house. I will make it all solar panel. Thank for sharing the knowledge

[idunasorchard]

I have 4 battleborn batteries in an unheated greenhouse and despite the fact that the temperature outside regularly dips into the teens or below in the winter, the low temp charging disconnect has never triggered. Mind you there can be several days in a row at these temps without sun, but the thermal mass of the greenhouse and the fact that the batteries self heat when discharging as Will mentions seems to be enough!

[meadrenalinejunkie]

I am in Canada and out in a boat in the winter using a trolling motor up with lots of cold wind.... definitely think this is the thing i may need to help charge the batteries when I make the switch from SLA. So many ones I found id love to see you do a tear down on, like the CANBAT and the relion battery. Would love to know they are good quality before paying $1, 200 per battery.

[sleekitwan]

I am quite intrigued by this. I have looked into my Prius gen 3 losing 12V battery power, and concluded the location way back isolated and out in the rear quarter, with zero insulation, is a fridge in effect come winter. I have bought a couple of little heater plates, but will first insulate, and already have a solar panel attached. This will probably be best. Good vid.

[rickharold]

I have a portable trailer with computer equipment in Utah where the winter temperature ranges from 14 to 34 F depending upon the day and the sun. I ended up getting the battleborn batteries for reliability and the heater. Solar is the only way to charge the other than going to the trailer with a generator. So I need to ensure the solar few hours gets the most charge. It worked well for long stretches. During some unfortunate circumstances the batteries ended up being drained and before we could get they were completely empty. So we had to heat the batteries up w the generator before we could even recharge. I had brought with added reptile heating pads ha ha to assist in the process. The batteries are insulated but it’s an unmanned trailer so given enough time it’s cold. The unfortunate part is we were getting a lot of solar during the week that we were not able to get up there but the temperature prevented charging. Live and learn Love the channel

[naranjojo]

I'm planning on locating my LiFePO4 battery rack in an unconditioned storage closet within an open carport. Where I live, the ambient high temperatures average around 30C throughout the summer, but can hit 40C for maybe a week or two. I see some conflicting data on cell degradation at these temperatures. Should I simply just try to cool the rack to ambient temperatures during the summer with increased airflow, or should I try active cooling -- maybe a recirculating chiller or small AC?

[redsquirrelftw]

Sensor placement is a very good key too that you mentioned. You probably want the sensor as far away from the pads as possible. Maybe sandwitch it between cells right in the middle and have the heater on all sides. It will take some time for the heat to gravitate through the battery and to the sensor, so when sensor reads a higher temp you know you're good to go. And yeah it's probably best to have separate heater than to be tied to a specific brand/cell. I'm still using lead acid for all my stuff so don't have to worry about this, but these cells are slowly starting to become more available in Canada so eventually do want to start playing around with these. Most likely for vehicular stuff once I start getting more equipment on my homestead property.

[Okkebeltman]

After looking at this video I decided I *do* need internal heaters for my batteries. I have them stored in the non-heated garage in the back of my camper. so cool air can run under the car and make it way colder. They sre not in a plastic box (I build a wooden box around them instead, but thats only to deflect items from accidentally hitting the batteries, not to insulate in any way shape or form.

I also drive fairly often into snowy areas, like up a mountain.

I decided to do something similar to what you did, with the sewage heating pad, and use a terranium one, which fits sandwiched between the cells. I am planning to make some kind of insulation as well which I can put on in the winter and take off in the summer, but havent planned that one out yet

[kswis]

I have a bit under 200 ah of the headway cells in my car audio build. They're in their own cooled box but I haven't installed heaters on them n it got pretty cold here in northern utah so instead of risking it I pulled them out. Which sucked cause it was like 18 deg. I know folks will read this and scoff but for me coming from Vegas, that shits freezing! I'll be installing heating pads in the airing when they go back in. Thanks you will, excellent video as always