Calvinist Claims Prophecy kills Open Theism

God is Open book series:

[jasonelliott]

Listen to what Sebastian says from 1:52:00-1:54:00. Very wise words that need to be absorbed.

[CowgirlAshe]

I had my faith demolished by negative theology, I'm on the road to rebuilding it currently. Having people in authority tell you when you are young, that God doesn't change his mind can be ruinous.

[HouseAtreides]

6:26 From Bruce Ware's The Diminished God of Open Theism: "The single richest and strongest portion of Scripture supporting God’s knowledge of the future is Isaiah 40-48...this text stops short of explicitly asserting God's exhaustive knowledge of all future actions and events." Absolutely hilarious! It's hard to stop smiling at the willful ignorance of Open-Theism deniers. They strongly believe core doctrines that simply aren't in the Bible (e.g., God is outside of time; the future exists like a movie script; everything that happens is the will of God.)

[thangmami]

In my faith journey in following The Way or Christ I have come to understand God more as a "verb" than a noun.

When God describes Himself in contrast to Idols, He says the idols can't do anything and then talks about things He has done or is doing.

Ex: "I the LORD God hath delivered thee from Egypt, it is I the LORD thy God who hath done this thing!"

So when I think about God "knowing all things" I tend towards that being a verb, something he is actively doing "in time." And the knowing I wonder if it has anything to do with the ancient meaning of the word involving the intimacy of the knowledge.

But as far as what I would claim, I would not make a dogmatic claim for or against something like "openness" theology, as "isms" are profane.

[atyt]

👍🏻Like what you said…”God becomes a formula…”. If this, then this. Theism differences are sometimes hard to decipher, but what God is not, seems almost easier. God is not…. Incapable of change, pivoting, responding, interacting.
God is so amazing, He is not stumped by rogue atoms, rogue sinners or rogue pharaoh’s.

[JudgeRightly]

Darn, wasn't able to join early enough to catch it live!

Few points in agreement:

- Free will is not a superpower.
- The reformation broke with Rome, but not with Greece.
- Such a cute baby!
- One more point I was going to make, but can't remember now.. might update later if I remember.

[chrislucastheprotestantview]

I have concluded that all closed theists are inconsistent calvinists. I thought of a pretty good argument to help them understand what a presentist means by "present" and "time".

I think they struggle to even understand what a prsentist means by "time" and "present" and conflate the two.

And because they conflate the two, that's the biggest reason they think closed theism is true.


I haven't had time to make a video about it.

But basically, demonstrating really well that "present" and "time" are two different things is key to them understanding everything else.


I was frustrated for a whole because they would say things to me like "God is outside of time" and I was like, "but God has always been present. God has never been outside the present or he would not exist. And since he has always existed, he always has been present."

And they would start to say things like "God is outside the temporal realm, and time and present are part of the temporal realm.'


But I think i finally figured out how to deal with that. But I think it's too much work to articulate in a comment section.

But I would say it's alot of work to even deal with a closed theist/Calvinist until the meaning of Present and Time is clearly established.

[NEXUS-kjv]

*Hav you a link to the book you recommend in this video, Please?*

[r.rodriguez]

Chris: Maybe the Bible means what it says.

Also Chris: Maybe the rooster crowing is a reference to the guardsmen.

Never let them know your next move.

[Dizerner]

Knowing future free will decisions, you are going to either have to sacrifice the free or the knowing under openness. You can't have both.

[apilkey]

Great discussion, many solid points. Saving this to my Open Theist playlist so I can share with others when needed.

[Brian_L_A]

Israel was not in Egypt 430 years. See Christ's genealogy:

Judah
Perez
Hezron
Ram
Amminadab
Nahshon
Salmon

According to Genesis 46:12 Hezron, Judah's grandson, entered Egypt. According to Matt. 1:5 Salmon fathered Boaz through Rahab. Salmon is not mentioned in the Exodus from Egypt so he must have been born during Israel's journey in the wilderness. Nahshon was probably a young adult for his sister married around the time of the Exodus.


Hezron was most likely an infant when entering Egypt, so we have four generations while in Egypt, Hezron-Ram-Amminadab-Nahshon.

So if Israel was in Egypt for 430 years then Each of those men, on average, was over a hundred when their son was born. NOT LIKELY.

The time of Israel wonderings probably dated to the time that Issac was shunned by Ishmael.

[irenicpelagian]

Sebastian mentioned it twice — ex nihilo creation — and I wondered why he believed in it. Is there someplace in the text of Scripture he's relying on? My guess is, he hasn't thought this over very carefully (as many others haven't, I'm not singling him out) because I find the idea not only unbiblical but incoherent and irrational, to suppose that God can bring matter out of nothing. I see the doctrine dependent on the neo- platonic God as propagated by the peeps in history we all recognize.

[kingjames]

I wish Chris would take that fake smile and smirk off his face that he's wearing perpetually. Discussing Bible doctrine is not a laughing giggling matter. I understand some things may make us laugh or be funny, but it's hard to take him seriously.