Inspecting a Lathe Before A Purchase Without Running It!

Here, I go over a Harrison M300 13x40 Metal lathe to talk about some of this issues I looked at before I purchased this lathe. I drove 10 hours round trip to pick this up so getting good information up front is a key part of taking the investment to buy a machine. I talk about things to look for and things to be aware of. There are many things to look at when buying a lathe like this. The main goal is that you want to buy the best machine you can for the least amount of money.

This lathe turned out to be a very good deal and was well worth the trip. This will be my new main lathe for my gunsmith shop. It was sent out for a partial rebuild after this video was made.

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[saup_]

Super useful video as right now I'm cataloguing a machine shop for someone of mine and one of the lathes he bought as part of this job lot was an M300. So while I've checked it over (its one of 3 lathes and 2 mills and about a van load of tooling and other stuff) it was really helpful to see through 'second pair of eyes'. Great video

[TK]

I ran a Harrison M-300 for 13 years at GTE Sylvania. Great mid-size lathe. It has a great spindle reverse.

[constructionduru]

Picking up a Harrison 12" Saturday. Your video was a big help thank you!

[jameskatz]

I inherited one of these from my dad who bought it in the early 70's. Great lathe!

[lindsaybrown]

One thing to look for is lots of tooling and accessories.
I bought a Harrison M300 that didn't come with many extras.
Basics like original tool holders and steadies are quite expensive.

[dass]

I have a south bend heavy 10 also.
I got a how to repair book for it. I liked what it said about paint, Who cares it does not make a lathe work any better. A well used machine looks like it can do the job and will do it without complaint.

[Gunsgame]

This is a great video for someone like me as a novice ! Thanks u very much for simplifying

[foshoy]

Thank You you are a True Gent Helping us all out one of the best on YouTube

[maxwedge]

Thanks for the info, I have a DoAll which is essentially the same unit.

[robert]

Most all the older lathes have a lot of wear in the ways right where the cross slide spends most of its time, close the the chuck. Aside from all other functions be sure to bring a test bar and a mag based dial indicator.

Sellers always say "look at the ways" they look good. Then when I cue it all up and say to the seller look at all that wear on those beautiful ways. Seller, OH SHIT... Then I walk the hell away.

Made the HUGE mistake of buying as large lathe that worked but had twelve thousands wear on the ways but they looked perfect, as in you could NOT detect ANY ware by looking at the ways.

Buy a 30 to 50mm or the corresponding bar in inches that is hardened bar designed for linear bearings at least 24" long and of course have some kind of indicator on a mag base.

Set it up in the chuck and get the bar spinning as true as possible out on the end, spin it by hand. Then with the dial indicator run it on center of the bar from the chuck all the way out to the end of the bar, do not turn the chuck, just put the indicator on top of the bar.

Note the reading every inche. If you have 20 inches of bar sticking out the chuck and you can only get it to run lets say 20 thousandths at the end and 5 thousandths at the chuck then that is fifteen thousandths over 20 inches.

So at 10 inches out you should have seven and 1/2 thousandths and so on. Bring a felt tipped marker and mark out the inches and mark every inch. Then run the dial indicator from the chuck out to the end of the bar and have your indicator zero'd out at the chuck and at every inch mark what the dial indicator reading is down on the bar.

On my 14" enco lathe at around 10 inches out, right where the cross slide spend most of its time, it was a big lathe with a big cross slide, there was 12 thousandths difference. That means even though those ways looked beautiful that lathe was junk and was NEVER going to make a decent part.

Think of it like this, you have a shaft to turn and so you start turning it. This is a shaft you need to press a bearing onto so you go for it using the auto feed and your pretty happy with the surface finish etc, so next you take it over to the hydraulic press and try pressing your bearing on the shaft but it only goes so far then locks up? What the heck? So you take out your trusty micrometer and HOLY SHIT you got 2 to 4 thousandths variation in the diameter of that shaft. WTF? Well you bought a lathe that was never going to do what a lathe it supposed to do, make precision parts.

That lathe might be ok at facing or doing some things but your never going to be able to do precision work with it, unless, you spend many thousands of bucks having the ways ground.

So did you buy a large piece of scrap iron in the shape of a lathe? Did it look and act like a lathe but fail to do it's job and make parts to the level of precision you needed?

Well at least I got my 14" enco for cheap so I was able to sell it for about what I had into it. What a shame.

I held back on this comment and watched the entire video waiting for the precision machine shed dude to show how to check bed ways wear, I thought for sure he would do that as those bed ways are the key to the entire machine being useful or, well, not being able to do it's job.

Well this was never shown to you??? I guess maybe the precision machine shed guy ether don't know or it does not matter to him?

BED WAY WEAR SHOULD BE THE NUMBER ONE THING YOU CHECK.

Why? Because it is the key, if the bed ways are bad nothing else matters and you should "WALK AWAY" unless you are looking for a parts lathe or you are buying it for scrap value. Because it is scrap if the ways are bad.

Bunch of you are probably scratching your head... So I will probably need to make a video on how to do this and where to get the bar etc.

My lathes all have or had this issue except for the Hardinge chucker I just bought. I can't make a shaft that takes bearing or cut a bore to take a bearing with my 12" craftsman lathe. The Bering bore will be larger on one end then the other end even on a 1/2 deep bore, when I press in the bearing it will be tight on one end and loose on the other because of bed wear and the effect it has on precision.

Bad news for most of you is most of the older lathes out there on the market have this problem so if you don't want to end up with a lathe that is not capable of doing what a lathe is supposed to do you better figure out how to check bed wear like I described.

People will say fun things to you like well, it will still "be OK for facing", or, I don't care how much those ways are worn I'm not dropping my price. I tell the seller this, you lathe is junk unless it is being sold for parts. good by, have a nice da, y good luck selling your big hunk of cast iron scrap, as, many buyers do not know how to do what I just did, figure out this lathe is junk because it is no longer capable of doing what it was designed for, making precision parts.

Don't try and negotiate the price you are going to pay, as, no price, even free justifies you buying something that can no longer do "what you are buying it to do"

So your new chunk of scrap in the shape of a lathe was a great deal because you got it for a low price? No it was not because it is not worth your time and trouble no matter what, if? it can no longer do its job.

When you find a lot of bed wear on a lathe, no mater how the rest of it looks WALK AWAY, or, of you like to step in fresh shit, negotiate a lower price and buy it. Then enjoy how it does not do what you bought it for.

Might get some argument from some people on this even the precision machine shed guy but you should stop and think it over...

FACT, most old lathes are junk being passed from one hapless victim to another for far far too high a price. So look in the mirror and decide if you want to be the next sucker in line or not?

have you ever bought a car without hearing it run? Cars are to drive around in right? Well, if you expect that car you are about to buy to run and drive, are you going to buy it without hearing it run and taking a test drive? Don't reply you bought a parts car and did not need to hear it run, this is not about that.

This is about how you might be ready to drop 3 to 5 thousand bucks on a lathe that simply will no longer do its job. You expected it to run but it will not run right and make good parts.

Why do you think machinery dealers will not do this test on used lathes they have for sale? It is because they want to see how stupid you are because if they have any experience at all, and they do, they will be looking for that guy without the experience to know if he is about to buy a lump of scrap in the shape of a lathe or if he walks in with a bit steel bar with a fine ground finish and a dial indicator and simply performs the needed test to know what he is buying, a usable precision machine or lump of scrap. Now which buyer will you be?

Why did I write all this? If I save even one of you from buying a lathe you should not have bought then it was worth it. I made the "big" mistake because I did not know what the heck I was doing, I related to you how "not" to make the same mistake I did.

[jeremykemp]

Thank you very much for this video, I am off to pick up a Colchester student master in a few days that I purchased off eBay and will be going through all these checks.

[danielabbey]

Really sound advice on evaluating lathes. Love those Harrisons and Colchesters; the Brits made some really well-engineered machines. Guessing $2K - $2.5K?

[melgross]

There are a lot of nice lathes out there. I started, many years ago buying a Unimat 3 with drill press attachment. A beautiful thing, which I still have. That was bought new. Later I received an offer from Atlas for the small 6” model, which I a, so bought. I still have that as well. It’s an ok lathe, b it obviously made for home use. I was in an apartment all that time, so that was bathe biggest I could manage. Again later, for my own company (a commercial film lab), I bought a South Bend 10L Heavy as you have. That I bought used at a photo lab auction. That was 1983. I used that to make photo machine parts until we sold the company in 2004. Then I brought it home, inn parts. I’ve been trying to rebuild it for all this time, here and there as I find good parts. But in 2002, I bought another South Bend, a FOURTEEN tool room lathe, made I believe, in 1973. In excellent shape with zero bed wear - flame hardened. This isn’t a gearhead lathe. It uses a variable speed drive with variable pulleys and a motor to vary the width. Old age is catching up as I forget the game of that drive, it’s well known. It will come to me after I post, no doubt. The Timken taper bearings are in great shape with no more than a tenth runout. I’ve modified the tailstock to use a cam to lock it down that I designed. It’s much better than using the wrench that required you to tighten until you hit the tailstock casting, and then resetting the wrench to tighten it all the way. Same to loosen. What a pain! When South Bend was still around I bought some parts. If I realized they were going out of business in 2002, I would have ordered a lot more. But I was lucky by getting a follow rest and steady rest as new old stock at crazy low prices on eBay shortly after buying the lathe. ($75 each) I power it with a Fuji VFD. You’re not supposed to go through the breakers with VFDs, but after 22 years of doing it there haven’t been any problems. I only use it for phase conversion, never for speed control as older motors can burn up that way. Normally I replace motors with inverter ready ones.

[TheKnacklersWorkshop]

Hello,
Very good advice for anyone wishing to buy a lathe... thanks for sharing...
Take care.
Paul, ,

[sacriptex]

Amazing video!! You help me a lot! Greetings from Brazil

[jimfurman]

This machine looks like a good machine!

[SuperiorDiamondDrillingI-swjg]

Thanks i have been looking for a while, nice to know what a machine may cost

[paulgreenlee]

Your advice was very helpful. I wish I had viewed a video like this one when I bought my 13" South Bend. I got screwed over big time. Sad thing about it was the lathe had power running to it. If I had only changed the speed of the spindle it would have crashed within 30 seconds. Cost me dearly in the long run. I would love to have a gear head the same size you are showing.

[joeywaters]

This an awesome site! Thanks so much for what you do! Price on the Harrison?

[sgagnon]

Great video! You are the one that sold me on a SB heavy 10. I bought one that was a turd so I sold it. I found a really tight one and paid $475 with lots of tooling, 3 jaw, 4 jaw, full set of 5c collets by 64ths, dead centers for head and tailstock, drive plate, dogs of all sizes, 3 tail stock chucks (2 jacobs and albrecht), live center, spare set of spindle bearings, about 20 pot chucks, bunch of MT2 taper shank drills (yeah, pretty much stole it). Only because I was in right place, right time and knew what I was looking for thanks to you. Now... how much did ya pay for that beauty?