A Scholar's Deep Dive Into UFOs & Religion | Diana Pasulka

Professor of Religion Diana Pasulka discusses Jung, Heidegger, the Dark Night of the Soul, and the recent UFO hearings.

LINKS MENTIONED:

TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:03:24 Diana's journey from "atheist" ⇒ "agnostic" (with respect to the phenomenon)
00:07:17 Nuns who saw orbs, every night, then prayed...
00:11:45 What are "beliefs"?
00:12:27 Atheists who believe in God
00:19:50 Spiritual vs Religious (and the Secularization thesis)
00:22:58 UFOs (or the belief in) are like a religion
00:29:37 Psychedelics and religion
00:37:01 Getting flack because of covering the phenomenon
00:39:42 To the skeptics: it's rational to believe in UFOs
00:47:38 Atheism is NOT like a religion, though it can be dogmatic
00:49:18 It's false to say "religions tell you what to think"
00:55:03 The case for dogma
01:01:06 Heidegger on technology not being just another tool
01:06:04 Heidegger and Jacques Vallée
01:10:03 Why do those who study the phenomenon tend to be Catholic?
01:13:49 How the Vatican views UFOs
01:15:12 Are religious stories interpreting UFOs, or are we interpreting UFOs materialistically?
01:20:05 Near Death Experiences, UFOs, and Dean Radin
01:22:35 How the CIA / DOD / etc. work (the nefarious strategies)
01:26:33 Graham Hancock
01:26:57 What Diana uncovered, that she shouldn't have
01:29:45 Roswell and the Promethean myth
01:31:10 The dangers (and reality) of CE5
01:33:48 Bob Lazar is considered credible by many, behind the scenes
01:36:02 Protecting yourself against disinformation
01:38:08 Academic Openness vs. Governmental Closedness
01:42:39 SpaceX (does Musk know?) / Writing in Latin for "them"
01:47:52 Images of the "patches" and Latin
01:48:18 The president is a "short timer" (this is why he / she isn't told the truth)
01:49:02 Who is Tyler? Why is he significant?
01:50:48 Does the gov't believe they understand what's behind UFOs?
01:52:01 We're dealing with MULTIPLE phenomenon, not just one
01:52:51 Biblically accurate angels
01:55:26 Physical evidence pertaining to purgatory
01:57:36 What's the point in collocating UFOs with religion?
02:02:10 Who is the modern Heidegger?
02:05:21 Jung and UFOs
02:08:00 Plato's Cave and the view that certain people have shackled us
02:12:54 Sangha as The Answer to deception
02:15:57 Proposition vs Participatory knowledge
02:18:46 Rediscovering meaning, Heidegger, Weinstein, and the TOE project
02:22:09 Experiential vs Analytical approach to understanding God
02:24:52 Lovecraft, and the perils of an "open mind"
02:27:14 Epistemic Shock vs Ontological Shock
02:38:10 The importance of Sangha
02:41:21 [Juliano Vargas] Reconciling religion with ET (and does ET believe in a Supreme Creator?)
02:42:15 [Numb Her Two] How has Diana's faith been affected?
02:44:27 Why does the Hitchhiker effect occur?
02:45:32 Angels... Demons... What is the THIRD (religiously interpreted) option?
02:46:45 Rosicrucianism and Gnosticism
02:50:52 Kurzweil's Singularity / Omega Point / UAPs
02:55:14 Jung and the UFO archetype (continued)
02:56:10 UFO hearings (May 2022)
03:00:23 [Tupacabra] Catholic Church, Remote Viewing, Thomas Campbell, and Jacques Vallée
03:05:54 Podcasts being sanctioned behind the scenes for disclosure #DisTOEsure
03:09:05 Disinformation on podcasts

[Lindy.T]

Loved this in depth podcast. Diana is a breath of fresh air away from the secretive intel/aerospace/occult group running the ufo secrecy. I'm glad she's being HONEST and open. And Kurt, when I was younger and searching for THE answer, I got this quote directly, which has stuck with me..."Too much knowledge gained, without first having lived the life....will cause confusion and consternation" (Ross Peterson 1975)

[RogerEssigArtist]

I watched this while falling asleep with a flu. Incredibly surreal. The ease in which words flowed out of you two was very apparent. Will watch again.

[NoelDickover]

Love that Curt is preparing more on the UAP related podcasts. Makes a huge and positive difference.

EDIT: Amazing philosophical convo! I learned a ton!

[hav]

This is one of the best podcast episodes I’ve ever heard in my life. You guys covered this topic better than anyone else in the podcast game

[daveyjohnstonshiftinggears]

This is truly beautiful. The mutual respect and connection between you both is so clear. Particularly as you discuss Heidegger, Wittgenstein, and on through to Lovecraft, in the way you mirror and reflect each others body language and support and encourage each other.

[colinchristian]

Wow! Easily and by far my favorite conversation on TOE Curt, absolutely fascinating. Dr Pasulka along with Vallée have the right approach to the phenomenon as far as I’m concerned, it’s wonderful to spend time with the two of you. I can hear your distress Curt, I hope you find some to talk with, a community to help you get through this current dark night.

[karthiklakshmi]

Curt’s open-mindedness and a healthy skepticism that fuels so much questioning, is a treat to listen to. Never thought I’d listen to a religious study talk for so long. Keep it up Curt. Also, Daniella is such an amazing guest. This is solid solid work!

[rwarpig]

I want to really compliment you on this interview. This was the best interview that I've heard/seen with Diana Pasulka. It was a conversation between peers, and I think that she respected your intelligence, knowledge, and questioning. I also think that this was one of your best interviews as well.

[alienpilled]

I could listen to her all day long. I always learn something when she speaks.

[TheUFORabbitHolePodcast]

Today is my birthday and I saved this episode for today because I knew it would be awesome. I was not disappointed. I’m such a fan of both of your work, and this conversation was a delight to listen to. Thanks for another’s great one, Curt.

[MRHallAuthor]

Terrific interview, Curt. Your experience of wishing your consciousness would limit itself and stop torturing you with such a vast and overwhelming expanse of truth, the power of which makes simple living and interacting painful, is exactly what I went through as a young man. From age 19, I suffered from anxiety, sometimes acute, sometimes generalised, of an existential character. The problem of being was so immense that I didn't know how to limit my being and be in the moment and simply experience being.
Like you, i was on a quest for answers. I read mostly spiritual texts and became obsessed with the idea of forming a whole cosmology that would order life, the afterlife and the universe into a comprehensible form. Once I had the framework, I thought, I would be able to find my place within it and set myself a path. Certain teachings offered this. Although my mother was in to everything New Age, spiritual, mystical and Eastern, I went to a church school so my world view is Christian. I got deeply into a gnostic group called The Order of The Cross during my 20s, founded by a Scottish minister in the early 20th century who had revelations which effectively married a lot of Eastern ideas of reincarnation and karma with Christianity. I thought I had cracked it - the mysteries of Christianity had been revealed! - but I hadn't.
In truth, it was only committing myself to the mundanity of life - in my case I moved my family to the country and got very involved in practical, grounding tasks - that I began to inhabit what you might call my present physical incarnation (as opposed to whatever our existence beyond this world is). I returned to the Anglican church and tried to understand Christian teaching and the Bible more deeply. I learned to live with the mystery and to understand that living with uncertainty, in faith, is the key, rather than striving to attain a set of keys to knowledge beyond my grasp.
Perhaps - and I am articulating this for the first time - it is an act of surrender to God and his will coupled with an acceptance that in this world we are bound to attend to practical things and not spend all of our time searching, that helped me into a more balanced existence and state of mind.
Part of me remains reluctant to accept the limitations of this world and it longs for connection with the transcendent. In my 50s I am now aware that our time here is very short and that perhaps the best inquiry for some of us who are painfully aware of the transcendent realities beyond is to try to understand how we can operate within our physical limitations. Monks confine themselves to a cell. We are confined to the physical world and have somehow to appreciate that and see what wisdom we can derive from it.
I would be interested to hear you interview some orthodox Christians like Bishop Baron or Father Mike Schmitz. The older I get, the more I realise that the institution of the church does a good job of containing and channelling the intellectual and spiritual impulses of those whose minds want to travel everywhere.

[danielgriebling]

Curt - thank you for sharing your very personal journey regarding the dark night of the soul. You are not alone. I grew up in a religious cult and ran away when I was a teenager, I knew no one, I lost my faith, I lost my family, my friends, I was completely alone. It was the best thing I ever did. Yet, at 40, I still struggle with the lack of certainty. That’s what cults give you: certainty and acceptance and it is very appealing. It is scary to live in a world without certainty. Some of my earliest memories are fear of going to hell and people I love going there. I still struggle with that feat to this day no matter how irrational I believe it to be. You are on a different path but what you share resonates very deeply with me. I’ve seen the other episode and I remember what you shared. I don’t have any special knowledge or existential secrets, I am struggling too, that’s part of why I watch your videos. What I can offer is human solidarity. Whatever else is real in this world, we are human together and we are in this struggle together. What a tremendous opportunity to have empathy for others. Thank you for sharing. You aren’t alone.

[maxzoe]

As someone with a graduate degree in social anthropology who also heavily studies the phenomenon, I want to say thank you, this interview is brilliant and highly informative.

[pugix]

I was awaiting this talk for quite a while. It's the best conversation I've seen with Diana. I've been following her since I saw the Lex Fridman podcast and then read American Cosmic. I highly recommend the series of lectures and panels that took place at Rice University, which Diana mentioned. Search for Archives of the Impossible.

[RobbieLValentine]

Honestly, Curt, this is probably one of the best interviews I’ve watched of yours. Thank you so much for sharing, producing and editing this. I’m sure it was super overwhelming to both process, produce in your own time, but then to do the whole thing all over again to publish for us here on YouTube 🙏🏻 Your best guest EVER!

[deeh]

The perils of an open mind and the necessity of a community- that hit me so hard. I JUST sent a note to a friend, about how alone I feel and how few people I have to converse with about the things I am exploring (all of one person, 1000 miles away). It is painful, in a way that seems wrong to designate as "pain"- but I suffer because of it, so it applies.

I felt the emotion in that disclosure, Kurt, and it makes me feel seen. Thank you.

[galacticresidue]

Curt stay strong brother! You’ll feel a bit crazy when you realize reality as we knew it isn’t what we learned growing up! You just have to go with the flow to stay sane.

[Loenthall]

One of the best conversations i have listened to thus far on this channel. Thanks, Curt. And I admire your courage for doing this in light of your admission of how difficult for you this exploration of consciousness and existence has been. I not only understand, I went through it myself. (And I suspect many out here have also.)

I respect you for doing these interviews. Thank you. They help me on my own journey.

[SUPERFunStick]

I love Diana's voice it's so attractive and I could listen to her talk passionately about anything all day long. It's a bonus for me that she's talking about subjects I'm obsessed with. I hope to hear her talk many more times in my life.
Also, as a humanist myself who's been studying and researching these things for 20+ years now, this stuff lead me from Christianity to humanism/agnostic.

[Uuur]

The interview didn't disappoint. It's a pleasure to listen to Diana, a true academic, and a true person. And Curt is a fantastic interviewer.