Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett: How to Understand Emotions | Huberman Lab Podcast

In this episode, my guest is Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett, Ph.D., a Distinguished Professor of Psychology at Northeastern University who is a world expert in the science of emotions. She explains what emotions are and how the brain represents and integrates signals from our body and the environment around us to create our unique emotional states. We discuss the relationship between emotions and language, how our specificity of language impacts our emotional processing, the role of facial expressions in emotions, and how emotions relate to sleep, movement, nutrition and the building and reinforcement of social bonds. We also discuss actionable tools for how to regulate feelings of uncertainty and tools to better understand the emotional states of others. This episode ought to be of interest to anyone curious about the neuroscience and psychology underlying emotions and for those who seek to better understand themselves and relate to others and the world in richer, more adaptive ways.

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Timestamps
00:00:00 Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett
00:03:01 Sponsors: Eight Sleep & Levels
00:05:46 Core Components of Emotions
00:10:42 Facial Movement & Interpretation, Emotion
00:19:33 Facial Expressions & Emotion, Individualization
00:31:03 Emotion Categories, Culture & Child Development
00:36:53 Sponsor: AG1
00:37:50 Legal System, ‘Universal’ Emotions & Caution
00:41:07 Language Descriptions, Differences & Emotion
00:48:18 Questions & Assumptions; Language, Emotions & Nervous System
00:53:40 Brain, Uncertainty & Categories
01:02:51 Sponsor: InsideTracker
01:03:57 Brain & Summaries; Emotions as “Multimodal Summaries”
01:14:45 Emotional Granularity, Library Analogy
01:19:40 Brain & Compression, Planning
01:29:04 Labels & Generalization
01:34:29 Movement, Sensation, Prediction & Learning
01:42:44 Feelings of Discomfort & Action
01:50:32 Tool: Feelings of Uncertainty, Emotion, “Affect”
02:01:18 Tool: Experience Dimensions & Attention; Individualization
02:08:36 Affect, Allostasis & Body Budget Analogy
02:15:41 Depression, “Emotional Flu”
02:20:20 Tool: Positively Shift Affect; Alcohol & Drugs; SSRIs
02:27:40 Relationships: Savings or Taxes, Kindness
02:36:50 Zero-Cost Support, Spotify & Apple Reviews, Sponsors, YouTube Feedback, Momentous, Social Media, Neural Network Newsletter

[jonmeisburg]

Here are 10 key points summarizing the discussion:

1. Emotions emerge from overall brain-body states, not distinct entities. The brain makes guesses to reduce uncertainty and plan actions.

2. "Affect" refers to general feelings tied to the body budget. Managing affect through sleep, nutrition, etc. helps regulate emotions.

3. There are no universal facial expressions for specific emotions. We make inferences about others' emotions from movements in context.

4. Emotion concepts and words summarize past experiences into categories to guide future actions.

5. More nuanced emotion vocabulary allows us to construct finer-grained categories and actions.

6. Other languages often have emotion words that English lacks. Learning these expands our emotional granularity.

7. Relationships profoundly shape emotions through social synchrony and acts of kindness that provide "savings" in the body budget.

8. Toxic relationships "tax" us. Choosing partners wisely is foundational for mental health.

9. Depression is like a "bankrupt" body budget. Physical factors like sleep, nutrition, and exercise are crucial for affect.

10. Focusing attention on nuances of physical sensations, rather than emotion labels, can provide wisdom to guide different actions.

Here are some specific actions you can take for each of the key points:

1. **Emotions emerge from overall brain-body states, not distinct entities.** To better understand your emotions, pay attention to your physical sensations, thoughts, and emotions as a whole. How are they interconnected? How do they change over time?
2. **"Affect" refers to general feelings tied to the body budget. Managing affect through sleep, nutrition, etc. helps regulate emotions.** Make sure to get enough sleep, eat a nutritious diet, and exercise regularly. These things will help to regulate your body budget and improve your overall affect.
3. **There are no universal facial expressions for specific emotions. We make inferences about others' emotions from movements in context.** When you are trying to understand someone else's emotions, pay attention to their body language and facial expressions. Consider the context of the situation as well. What is the person saying? What is happening around them?
4. **Emotion concepts and words summarize past experiences into categories to guide future actions.** Think about the different emotions you have experienced in your life. What are the common themes? How have these experiences shaped your behavior?
5. **More nuanced emotion vocabulary allows us to construct finer-grained categories and actions.** Learn new words to describe your emotions. This will help you to better understand and manage your own emotional experience.
6. **Other languages often have emotion words that English lacks. Learning these expands our emotional granularity.** If you are interested in learning a new language, pay attention to the emotion words that it has. How are they different from the emotion words in English?
7. **Relationships profoundly shape emotions through social synchrony and acts of kindness that provide "savings" in the body budget.** Spend time with people who make you feel good. Be kind to others and offer your support. Social connection is essential for emotional well-being.
8. **Toxic relationships "tax" us. Choosing partners wisely is foundational for mental health.** Avoid relationships that are draining or abusive. Choose partners who are supportive and caring.
9. **Depression is like a "bankrupt" body budget. Physical factors like sleep, nutrition, and exercise are crucial for affect.** If you are struggling with depression, make sure to get enough sleep, eat a nutritious diet, and exercise regularly. These things will help to improve your body budget and mood.
10. **Focusing attention on nuances of physical sensations, rather than emotion labels, can provide wisdom to guide different actions.** When you are feeling overwhelmed by emotions, try to focus on your physical sensations. What are you feeling in your body? What does your body need?

It is important to note that these are just suggestions. The best way to improve your life is to experiment and find what works best for you. Be patient and kind to yourself along the way.

[metemad]

Andrew is teaching people how to be humble by example. ❤

[melissakey]

I so appreciate your humility, Dr. Huberman. We need more of that in the world.

[shrirangbondale]

What i like about this podcast : she has studied so much about her subject, she basically points out what's wrong with stuff we commonly know and goes a level deeper and explains it properly... ( It was harder for me personally to visualise what is stress but after she explained what cortisol is, i was able to visualise it properly)

[bethearly]

I am an early intervention speech therapist. I have been endorsing that parents label/ñame emotions for their children for the very reasons that Dr. Feldman states. However, my head is now spinning with regard to the new information I am learning about whether emotional states are genetically determined, cultural influences etc. LOVE THIS TOPIC and now I have a new and long list of books to buy, highlight and make notes in, then incorporate this information into my practice and what I tell my graduate clinicians. Also: comments about the language differences is spot on. I speak Spanish and there are many words used to describe emotions that are not available in English Thank you so much!

[innershawnti]

I am so glad this conversation took place, and that Andrew held the space for it to develop into what it did gracefully, (with humility). We need more people like Lisa to help us properly progress psychology/ physiological/ mental health studies/ field forward, in the right direction. Thank you, both!

[lexfridman]

Such a great conversation. Lisa is amazing! ❤

[TnE]

“Part of being emotionally intelligent is knowing when not to construct an emotion!”. 💣 ❤

[me]

This is particularly valuable for neurodivergent people. People with ASD, like myself, often struggle with understanding the emotions of others as well as our own, which leads to issues with expression, communication, and general connection with other people. Tools like your podcast are an immense help. Thanks, professor!

[urwdduz]

The healthiest battle of the egos I’ve ever seen… this is how you have a

[lusmerlin]

The universal expression discussion hits home. I am from the Dominican Republic and came to rural Maryland and people at work kept saying that I was getting angry and that I was aggressive when I was feeling neutral and even nicer than most! I eventually realized it was how they interpreted my gestures. Back home we express everything more intensely. I started acting... using more neutral faces or slightly smiling... Started speaking in a slightly higher pitch... Boom! As I met more people, they seemed to like me and find me funny and even chill! This has significant repercussions for career outcomes - whether someone considers an Asian person not to be leadership material because they are inexpressive, or they isolate a black woman because they find her aggressive.

[GGG.]

The awkward moments, the scientist created made my brain go blank, and I learned nothing I just felt the tension.
Much love and respect from Montreal, Canada 🍁🙏🏻💖🍀

[JenniferMyers]

This episode was tremendously interesting and so helpful to me as someone who struggles with my own emotional regulation and properly identifying facial expressions in other people. It’s something with which I’ve struggled my entire life, and educational resources such as this podcast, and specifically this episode, are invaluable tools for self improvement. Thank you for providing this.

[loverlybarquez]

The word you were referring to is “gigil” — a Filipino word. It means the overwhelming feeling that comes when you see something cute!

[AC-wbpk]

This is such a good episode. I love how Lisa said how different cultures or languages can really define an emotion well. I am half Salvadoran and half Mexican and there are words from both cultures that I can’t translate to the fullest in English. The emotion or sentiments behind those words, I find, are not in the English language.

Also, I love how vulnerable Andrew was in saying he felt lonely after spending time with his sister in New York. I get that feeling after spending time with my immediate family that are from outta state. This is something I have said since I was a kid, that my home are my people it’s not a place. So when they have to go or I have to leave after a visit I experience some loneliness as they take a part of me with them. Kinda like being homesick for them. This is just my experience, but I find it hard to even explain now.

Also, the sense that this time with my loved ones is fleeting gets to me too, but that is a whole different rabbit trail.

[LLS]

This lady is excellent. SSRI's have been a lifesaver for me for over 25 years. They continue to work beautifully for me. Please be careful in your excitement to not overlook how profoundly they can continue to change lives and turn people from dead husks into vibrant living productive members of society who not only thrive externally put feel the sunshine in their hearts, souls, and minds that was desperately missing for so very, very long.

[destinygarcia]

I have been on a journey of self healing and this podcast has been a great influence on my emotional and physical being.

[chenli-yi]

This is probably the most life-changing episodes for me. Just by knowing this mechansim allows me to generate so many more options in every day life. It also provides a strong foundation for me to understand all other concepts like the growth mindset and the humam learning process. In the past few days I have been dwelling on the every day application of it and using testing them. It already has changed some basic patterns that, I, for the past 39 years of my life, believed were unchangeable. It is like microscope that helps you see the working of some already very useful tools. I want to thank, from the bottom of my heart, Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett and, of course, Dr. Andrew Huberman, for their love of science and strong compassion for people who suffer.

[raesantos]

How Emotions are Made by Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett is one of my favorite books of all time. I couldn’t get enough of her insight so I also read 7 and a Half Lessons about the Brain, which was so eye opening yet so elegantly concise. I’ve never been more excited for a Huberman episode until this one!

(Lex Fridman’s interview with Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett is also amazing, go check it out ☺️)

[shannonhooge]

I am a Special Education teacher and I find the science presented in these episodes invaluable for my practice as a teacher. This episode, however, just left me a bit unmoored. While I can find ways to apply the concepts Dr. Feldman Barrett was positive about, those ideas that were refuted are very hard to get around. The idea that Emotional Intelligence is not useful flies in the face of my personal "anecdata, " and puts in question much of what we do to try to help children deal with their emotions. I understand that Dr. Feldman Barrett is trying to explain the science and call into question thinking and practices that are not supported by data, but she also discounts a large body of psychological practice that are used daily with a great deal of success. Maybe what is really helping kids with neurodivergence is the relationship with a positive adult, but I can't help but feel (emotion) that I'm just whistling in the dark. I'd love to hear some episodes that deal with neurodivergence as well as how EQ actually works.