Jenny Odell on How to Do Nothing | Offline Podcast

This week, Jenny Odell teaches Jon Favreau how to unplug and, almost literally, smell the roses. Pulling from lessons outlined in her book “How to Do Nothing: Resisting the Attention Economy,” Jenny makes the case that our attention is precious and what we choose to focus it on doesn’t always need to be productive.

00:00 - Intro
00:59 - Beginning of interview
01:38 - How the 2016 election influenced her work
04:17 - What it means to “do nothing”
10:30 - Eliminating boredom: iPhone vs. loupe
16:29 - Our addiction to updates
19:05 - Connectivity & sensitivity
31:19 - How to resist the attention economy

Crooked believes that we need a better conversation about politics, culture, and the world around us—one that doesn’t just focus on what’s broken, but what we can do to fix it. At a time when it’s increasingly easy to feel cynical or hopeless, former Obama staffers Jon Favreau, Jon Lovett, and Tommy Vietor have created a place where people can have sane conversations that inform, entertain, and inspire action. In 2017 they started Crooked with Pod Save America—a no-bullshit conversation about politics. Since then, we continue to add shows, voices, and opportunities for activism, because it’s up to all of us to do our part to build a better world. That’s it. End of mission.

Want some pep talks, the most important things to do/know, and the occasional dog pic? Shoot us a text at [phone]

[nightcited]

In the past two months, I have consciously been on social media less and less. I am very isolated in a rural community where I don't exactly fit in politically, so I do use social media to keep up with what a small friend circle is doing. Just recently though, I suggested to an even smaller group of friends that we get together over a Facetime-like ap on a Friday (dead zone time) and spend the evening talking face to face. We talked for 2.5 hours (spanning three time zones) and laughed and caught up. I found that much more satisfying than just checking in on their social media feeds. Thanks, Jon, for another thought-provoking pod.

[renegadegeek]

OK. I'm a STEM teacher. I have all kinds of little magnifiers for kids so we can go on "hunts" outside. In the summer I set up tables at local farmers' markets with portable microscopes, magnifying glasses, and lots of samples -- rocks, fur, shedded snakeskin, leaves, feathers, pond water, insects that have passed away, bits of bone, etc. Kids (and parents) LOVE exploring these simple natural objects and seeing them in a different way. Endlessly fascinating. So yeah, get offline and look around! Great interview. Thank you.

[janwag]

I’m so glad to remember that all those activities that never get on the official ‘to do’ list that give such a peaceful moment (deadheading roses), are the most precious moments of the day because I am with myself in awareness of my own self. Watching one’s in and out breath, noticing the space around me, just sitting still and allowing time to pass knowing I am a human being rather than a human doing is precious to my aliveness. Thanks 🙏

[ceceliavalentine]

Morcom rose garden on border of Oakland and Piedmont, long treasured by my family and so many other locals. A great place to meditate, relax, work out, get married, gather outdoors during the pandemic, etc. Grateful for the volunteers who have kept this treasure going all these years. Loved her book, which helped me feel comfortable with continued disconnection with social media. I’m not a Luddite. I just want to live in the real world.

[toychristopher]

I loved her book! I want to cultivate that level of curiosity about the world. I do want to spend more time and attention observing the world around me but I still feel this voice asking, "What's the point? How is that going to help you?"

[rustyb]

This is one of the best podcasts…Jon F. Is Great with the best guests.

[nicolepsy]

This is incredible. I've found myself lately in mid-comment writing thinking "Why am I even doing this? The people that I want this to reach will never see this". I've now begun to limit my comments to respectfully reminding others that although it might feel good to vent in the moment (I've definitely done my share), nothing will change if we all just complain on a keyboard. We need to actually take action to bring change. (Not to suck up, but I refer them to The Pod if they are interested in finding out how).
The timing of Jenny mentioning the loupe is wild. I recently inherited a small collection of jewelry and bought a loupe to see if any of it was worth having a jeweler look at it (most isn't, as I suspected, lol). Of course now I'm fighting the urge to spend hours looking at random stuff.
Great episode, thank you!

[jmage]

Best Offline cast yet. I've been offline for over a year, and have been waiting for Jon to talk with another person who's also mostly offline. It's a weird existence. thanks!

[mad_incognito]

At the end of 2020 I had to do something outside the house and because the gyms were closed I started running and becasue of the pandemic I kept on running until I did my first marathon. Now the pandemic is still not over and so I am still running. Even though for most part I run the same neighborhood I enjoy being outside by myself with no phone or computer - just me running with road ahead.

[MargaretPinard]

Love the idea of looking at moss with a loupe! 'hypercontextualized' versus something, somewhere--so true. Can't wait to read Jenny's book.

[ThisIsFiftyWithLil]

Oh, also, Jenny's so cool. Loving this interview.

[alm]

25:52 Jenny is describing the process that happened with the first Velvet Underground album. The "meme" about that album is that everyone who heard it when it came out formed their own band. I'm going to have to buy and read her book. Thanks.

[leslieruggiero]

Another great episode! I have Jenny’s book on my to read list and now I know really need to try to get to it soon. Her FB newsfeed work around reminded me of a book I listened to at the end of last year by Cal Newport, Digital Minimalism: Choosing a Focused Life in a Noisy World. He gives some smart strategies and ideas for minimizing your usage. Some of the books off into anecdotes too much, but I think it fits well with the intent of Offline. He also talks about how social media makes you feel more lonely, which Jenny gets into in this pod, too.

[BarbaraatQueensAvenueTarot]

Thanks so much! My husband and I have been putting off a Viking River Cruise to Eastern Europe. I've decided to go ahead and book it. I need to get off this computer and get back out into the world and so do the rest of us. Peace out.

[MRICCI]

Thanks for the great show, full of great advice. I feel calmer already.

[Luke-kqkj]

Love this. Thank you so much for this series.

[prof.jezebel]

So thoughtful and insightful! University students now spend an average of 40 hours a week amusing themselves on screens (social media, video games) then are "too stressed" by their schoolwork (when reading lists etc. have been cut down to accommodate them). They've lost so much capacity for memory and concentration, they have difficulty following simple instructions or passing easy tests. How much of the attention economy is about dumbing down the population to make us more easily manipulated?

[elizabethnaylor]

This subject is exactly where I am right now. I will order the book today.

[bretthake]

Thanks for this video. I just bought Jenny's book with an audible credit so that I could start it today. Planning to grab a hard copy this week.

[astropgn]

Her book grew on my a lot. I read it at the end of 2019 and I kind of like it but not that much at first. My main criticism was that it was very easy to apply the things she suggested on her book only if you have a good and financially stable life. It felt like it was thoughts for the elite and I didn't feel represented. I am a poor person making 1.7k dollars a year, living in a very poor country and I basically cannot afford property. Zero savings, no car, working to pay rent and food and that is it. The most deep thoughts I had were the real contemplation of living on the streets in the following years giving I am yet to find stability. So my first gut reaction was that I took it as a little bit offensive when I read that I should walk around more and look at birds.

But then it grew on me. The feeling of dread that we created these past 10 years is very strong in all of us. The amount of friends and family that I lost touch with just because we now live in this compartmentalized spaces. Not only we are losing our time into this madness, but the interactions we have with people we like are also very short. It happens in bursts and sometimes you cannot find the value in it. I hate that I have groups of friends and whenever someone says something about their lives the "conversation" is a spread out comments here and there.

I keep going back to this book and listening to her interviews. There is something powerful there. I wish I knew how to not only apply some of its ideas into my life, but also spread to the people I care.