Is Fake London Really That Bad? (A Reply to NJB)

I spent many formative years in London Ontario Canada. Jason of Not Just Bikes has said many things, but I made this video to add my own comments about the city. As much as I have tried to lay out that which redeems the city. It is still a place that I do not wish to move back to.

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OurRetiredLife:
Bike Tour: Thames Valley Parkway, London, Ontario

NJB Links:
Suburbs that don't Suck - Streetcar Suburbs (Riverdale, Toronto)
Throwing Good Money After Bad Car Infrastructure - Wonderland Road
Why We Won't Raise Our Kids in Suburbia

0:00 Is Fake London Really That Bad?
0:28 What is Fake London?
1:50 London is car infested
2:44 London is primarily single family homes
3:28 A car is required for every trip
4:10 Crossing the street is dangerous
4:44 You're stranded until you can drive
5:33 Biking in London is suicide
6:30 London transit sucks
7:21 Kids don't go outside
8:01 Why London sucks
9:17 Good things about London
10:46 London Ontario has potential
11:27 Conclusion
11:55 Outro

[Jacob_Waller]

I don't think Jason is calling London worse than anywhere else. He is commenting on the fact that it's not unique. London is a cookie cutter suburb that you can find everywhere in North America

[nyanbadacc]

Hello! Fake London resident here (my house is even in your video)! While Jason is occasionally hyperbolic about his sentiment regarding fake London, I don't really think it is misplaced. I commute on my bike in London and surrounding area around 250km per week and while I still prefer it over driving, it is an awful experience. The bike lanes exist, they just don't connect to each other so you're forced onto extraordinarily dangerous stroads here and there. The bike lanes are often riddled with potholes, overgrowth, and debris that isn't present on the roads so I often see cyclists preferring the roads over the poorly maintained bicycle lanes as well. I think a prime example of both of these points is Wonderland road southbound between Sarnia road and Riverside drive. There is a (mostly) grade separated bike lane there, but it is so poorly maintained that the stroad that is Wonderland is genuinely preferable to cycle on. It also just randomly ends for a small portion at the intersection of Oxford road, so you have to join traffic anyways by crossing 2 lanes which is absurd. There are other points along that stretch that randomly terminate into the sidewalk for a portion (If it is illegal to cycle on the sidewalk, why did they design it this way? It makes no sense.) The problem with fake London is a problem that is also shared by many other North American cities more generally, that being the complete disregard for anything that is not an automobile by both the general populace and past local politicians. Even when policies or infrastructure are put in place that are meant to be for people who do not operate automobiles, it is so disjointed and contorted because it is made from the perspective of someone who exclusively uses an automobile for transportation. London is a great symbol for North American failures in transportation and I'm happy Jason is showcasing those failures. The city is improving ever so slowly, but it simply isn't fast enough. I've personally gotten rid of my car and have committed to nearly exclusively using my bike to get around, but that may genuinely be the death of me. Just this week I was bumped into by a motorist who was texting and driving on Dundas; It wasn't enough to cause damage to me or my bike, but it is still cause for major concern. Apologies for my incoherent rant.

[jaro]

Seems like a reasonable take, the potential is there as you show. But to me 70%+ of trips by car stat alone is enough to justify the criticism.

[guidoferri]

Summary: is fake London really bad? Yes, but it's slowly improving, kinda

[johnnevada]

I was brought up in South London (Askin Street) in the 1960s - until my parents moved back to the 'real' London in England. From the age of 6 or 7, I cycled, walked, or got the bus everywhere around the city. My parents had no idea where my friends and I went on long summer days and I always came home with adventures to tell. I revisited London recently and was shocked at how ugly, boring, and car-dominated the city had become. The vibrant downtown I remember was replaced with parking lots. I also noticed the sad absence of kids on the streets. How do they make any friends?

[roelkomduur]

NJB is making people aware of their surroundings, how infrastructural choices impact their lives. Quite rightly he is not just talking about bike lanes. To me as a Dutchman, it's impossible to understand that a city that " is the fastest growing city of Canada" doesn't have a clue how to do that correctly. No trains, no busses, no trams.. just build the same ole suburbs.. If i compare that to new build cites in the Netherlands ( yes we have them, 40% of our land we made ourselves) it is pathetic!
To say that JNB is exaggerating is shortsighted and stupid. NOW is the time to build better, to invest in liveable city! Now you have the opportunity to do things right the first time. Be bold! Stop these stupid endless discussions over bike lanes that cost a few mil, while spending billions on a couple of km's highway.. Hereby want to thank NJB for making me aware of the incredible infrastructure in my country, what i take for granted...

[beardannyboy]

I just moved to Fake London from Ottawa, and my impression so far is that
a) The number of Stroads cutting through the city is insane.
b) Most of the local citizens have a severe case of "Car-brain", where the default assumption is you go everywhere and do everything in your car, and so does everyone else.
c) There's a notable homeless problem around downtown, with encampments in all of the nearby greenspaces, and it seems the suburbanites like to pretend it doesn't exist. I think that people in the safe bubble of their car tend to ignore everything they are driving past.
d) 90% of the city is designed like a suburb, with neighborhoods of single story detached houses complete with setbacks and lawns being everywhere, and much of downtown being littered with empty parking lots, and all the shopping being pushed to the outskirts in clusters of big box stores.
e) The trees are nice, it's not called the forest city for nothing, but I'm certain the existing trees are a massive barrier to development due to over-zealous protections put on them.

[ATjfds]

The "Not Not Just Bikes" intro with the horn was so funny

[illhaveawtrplz]

It sounds like your rebuttal amounts to “Jason is 95% right, but London is making some progress”. I’m glad it’s getting better! But I’m not sure that it’s the most effective counter-argument...

[anthonyarundel]

Largely supports NJB. In fact, this more in depth look at London Ontario made me think that it was worse than what Jason described! But even a city that is denser and visibly beautiful
can be terrible for cyclists and pedestrians - inner Sydney Australia for example.

[luk]

Seems a good a fair assessment, but Jason has always said that Canada is mostly better than the US when it comes to walkability and that often Canada makes it at least theoretically possible to get places without a car. He never used Fake London as THE prime example of bad urban planning. He just uses it because that's what he knows best.

[humanecities]

Great breakdown! I’ve never been to London, ON. Something I’ve noticed as I’ve traveled more is that Canadian cities are much better off than we sometimes think. There’s also a lot of potential across the country!

I think Jason’s videos had woken a lot of people up to the problems! I’m happy to see so many urbanist creators on YT, IG, and elsewhere adding to the call for change.

[sonicblare]

Dude, when you said you took 2009 data, and showed kids biking on sidewalks, I lost you. You've probably never had a close call with a 50mph truck. It's life changing

[shaunpcoleman]

I live in Waterloo Region and have travelled to London on many occasions. When you enter the city from the 401 your first impression is wide roads, parking lots, plazas, etc. As you approach the core it does not improve. I'm sure there are some decent places to live but it is a typically southern Ontario suburban community the same as Mississauga, Brampton, Burlington, Milton, Guelph, etc. To get the nice parts of London from a suburb (where most people live) you must drive. When I have visited people who live there, the suburbs are a labyrinthian maze. I do not see how transit could be efficient.

London recently cancelled the rail part of their Rapid Transit plan to go exclusively with buses. A quote from the BRT Handout, "BRT is a bus-based rapid transit system that mirrors many of the features of a rail system with the flexibility and cost savings associated with using over the road vehicles." No, that is a lie told by a politician who is never going to use transit pandering to car dependant constituents. Buses (RT or regular) always get stuck in transit.

Waterloo Region has the ION and Hamilton now has the LRT. London is run by politicians stuck in the 20th century. Without rail transit, the traffic will just get worse. London is not a fun city to visit and I imagine it will stay that way.

[ShouriHandpan]

As a london commuter who mainly uses ebike to get anywhere the city has made a good deal of impvoments to the infrastructure. But still has a lot to work on to make it better. The busses could use some love as it takes an hour to get anywhere in the city

[bramharms]

As a Dutchman who's been following Jason since the beginning I must say that it's always been clear he makes London (the one that isn't London) into a strawman to point out common problems. That said, at the first pictures you showed of London (the one that literally no one in the world can pinpoint on a map) my clear gut reaction was "hell hole". Some indoctrination might have taken place over the years... 🙄

So it's good you made this thoughtful video. I enjoyed it.

[brandonm]

I was expecting to find you slamming NJB here, but was pleasantly surprised by your well-reasoned response! Also I loved that “Not Not Just Bikes” intro

[noseblind]

Living closer to downtown is better. Car depency is the bane of this city, and I would say you reap the most benefit living in downtown or the satellite neighborhoods while also owning a car. That is a niche set of requirements and also highlights the city's problems, but if you fit that description then London will be an enjoyable experience. The transit is far too unreliable at this stage, so there isn't any way to get downtown without relying on the shitty transit, walking if possible, or paying for parking. All 3 are deterrents if you live in the outer ring of the city and that is the biggest issue of the city's layout

[beback_]

I sympathize with Jason's anger. He's not an optimistic 20 year old living in a world brimming with possibility. He's in his mid forties, and feels like he's been gaslit for DECADES and that the best years of his life have been stolen from him.

[ghostpipe]

As someone who grew up in 'old' London and watched the downtown be killed by malls and urban sprawl and a lot of the most impressive character homes at the time being regarded as 'old fashion' and of little worth (in comparison to the cookie cutter treeless blocks on the outskirts that swallowed farmland and green space) which were then torn down to make parking lots. I still remember the old market down town that actually catered to farmers selling large amounts of produce and the ware house buildings full of artists (sorry nostalgia). Anyway, its growth is a city that was based around malls by culture-less hacks and now that mall culture has basically died/ gone off trend... it is a bit of a disconnected mess, full of cars that IMO represents the attitudes of the ppl who were originally drawn to suburban communities. Disconnection and a fear of anything different.