Trekyards EP107 - USS Vengeance (Part 2)

Part 2 of our look at the JJ universe ship the USS Vengeance dreadnought

[SLDFSpectreSix]

In Star Trek Online, you can get the Vengeance, slap the Constitution hull material on, it cloaks, and it's got a hangar bay slot for Kelvin Timeline Assault Drones.

Also, one of the hull materials makes the bussard collectors red. I personally love the ship. It takes on tactical cubes and eats them for breakfast.

[USSEnterpriseA]

I have my own idea for why the saucer is that big. I do like the carrier idea, but what if that IS living space. I know the ship CAN be operated by one person if needed, but what if it is living space for troops. If you are going to war, you need more than just a navy. In the Dominion War, we did see ground combat still occurring for control of planets, why not here. I know the ship is meant to be a battleship, but it would be fairly efficient to carry ground forces as well, with the proper training they could double up as damage control parties in space combat and serve to repel boarders. It makes sense to me and would keep some of the Federation ethic of not going for orbital bombardment.

[epoc]

The hole is shaped like a 'v' for vengeance.

[ratz]

love your vids guys but this one kills me, vengeance is one of the few ships i like in star trek. you jumped on its size but didn't apply the logic behind why. its because of the time period not in spite of it. khan was asked to build a battleship not a wimpy ass ship like all the other ships in the fleet. so you start with weapons, here's what it will take to kill a fleet of kingons. now build a ship around them. he had to make it big because of the tech of the day which was limited. the ships would get smaller and smaller as the tech got better and they could do the same or more with less. think cell phones. why you guys never thought of that surprised me. i can go on and on with this but that is the biggest thing. its big because it had to to serve its purpose with the limited tech of the era

[Dumplin]

I like everything about the USS Vengeance for what it was. The way I look at it, the design was influenced by Khan and the weapons and tactics he helped to develop. Built to be stealthy, menacing and deploy large amounts of damage. Imagine if he transported to the USS Vengeance instead of the Klingon homeworld. How different the movie would have been.

[LionMerteuil]

Why does nobody get that this ship was basically a space Man-O-War? Giant, armed to the teeth, and a savage broadside arc.

[telecleez]

I personally liked the Vengeance and I think you are right about it being not just a Dreadnought but also a Carrier cuz they launched it before it was fully out fitted and manned so it could have carried a huge amount of fighters/combat shuttles. Also the Vengeance was in response to both the Narada and the impending (as the Admiral saw it) Klingon war so yeah it was an over compensation for the perceived threat. And as for Khan he was a super genius with an eidetic memory so he could have learned the tech of that century and come up with new tech from that point (as said in the story line).

[NaD-op]

What everyone seems to forget is that this thing was designed to fight Klingons. If you keep that in mind all the time when thinking about this ship it begins to make a lot more sense. Personally I see the 'exposed' bridge as being a statement to the Klingons, like a "we're not afraid of you, give us what you've got, we can take it" kind of attitude. We forget that this was Admiral Marcus' ship and he practically CRAVED war with the Klingons. Having a massive, deadly ship that is also quite stealth-like with an exposed bridge could be a way to attempt to inject the Klingons with fear because it suggests that those onboard aren't afraid of the Klingons and that they (starfleet) can out-do them. I see this ship as a 'cold war design' or a 'space race design' meaning that both sides are getting carried away with their motives and constantly trying to out-do each other. The Klingons wouldn't expect the puny starfleet to arrive in glorious battle with such a humongous and deadly ship. This thing really is the flag-ship and yes I agree that it could be a carrier. Obviously all the exposed parts would be way more protected than it would seem but the Klingons wouldn't know that. It's fighting a war with guns and psychology and personally I think it works :)

[willvincitran]

The bridge section is another ship itself.

[momentumblack]

The review forgets one aspect of the ship...it was designed by Yes it is JJ (No reference to Good Times, please), but it's meant to be so different from anything ever seen in all the Star Trek universe. It was designed by a maniac with an actual superiority complex. The fact that it could be piloted by a crew of one isn't bad, when that crew is Khan. If the events of Into Darkness hadn't happened, I believe Khan would have hijacked the ship, taken his crew back and laid waste to the federation.

[biostemm]

It would have been kind of interesting if the Vengeance was built around some piece of the Narada that escaped the wormhole/implosion from the first movie...

[The_Lucent_Archangel]

Behind the curve here, but the bright blue effect was used a few times in DS9, namely on the viewscreen when ships were jumping to warp. It did fade back to the moving starfield after a few seconds, but the cosmetics are vaguely similar.
Also, Cherenkov Radiation (related to superluminal speeds) is typically presented as producing that sort of hue.

[CLAIR.L]

I really appreciate the unbiased opinions on these controversial ships trekyards gives

[ZgguratVertgo]

There was a Star Trek novel written decades ago called Dreadnaught that dealt with the idea of Starfleet building a 100% military war ship. That might have inspired some of this. Of course that book made sense, unlike Star Trek: Into Bullcrap

In Star Trek II, Khan was established as a very formidable villain by taking an inferior ship (the Reliant, being Miranda Class, is overall weaker than an refitted Constitution Class) and then gaining the upper hand over Kirk. Kirk then has to use his wits and experience to gain the upper hand back, and back and forth. That's what made it a compelling conflict.

Star Trek: Into Bullcrap doesn't make sense in any way at all. None. Absolutely nothing makes any sense whatsoever. And this whole bigger and bigger and bigger silliness is just offensive, it says to the audience that we're too stupid for anything with a shred of depth or sophistication in it.

Jar Jar Abrams wrecked Star Trek, and now he has wrecked Star Wars as well. Maybe he should just take over Doctor Who too and then my entire childhood will be dead.

[winkles]

That aft nacelle line had me facepalming. The had me double facepalming.

[larrynorton]

This weekend I went to Space City Comc Con in Houston. Got the model and in person the ship does better. Thoughts now looking at it.
1) If you were going to go after the Klingons you have to be able to cloak (that was to be installed on Thursday). If you wanted to cloak this huge baby maybe to hole in the saucer section was necessary. The thing is if they would have de-cloaked in front of the Enterprise, they could have said it was there to make the cloak move effective. 
2) Maybe the hole allows better control of see beneath the ship?
3) in the collection information the came with the models show a lot of early sketches. They really wanted holes in the saucer section. There are sketches just like the fan art you s at the end of the piece.
4) They could have said they were using a phasing cloak and the open section is set phased
Anyway love you shows, Thank

[onyadam]

I think the hole in the saucer section isn't a bad idea. It for starts makes the bridge a harder target to hit, projectile weapons such as torpedoes may pass through, and it reduces collateral damage to the command center.

[Taorakis]

I make it short this time: If you want a Warship then go for the Defiant. Smallest that it can get, most powerful Weapons, powerful Engines, as manauverable as it gets, so it doesnt get hit if it's not flying straight. And if it does it loads tons of armor, even ablative one.
The only reason, and i completely agree with you there, to make a big ship is to make it a carrier or because it wields some kind of Superweapon.

[For_The_Horde]

I think the put the bridge like that is to defend from boarding. This mean people can only come from one direction allowing defensive positions to be set up in advance because you know where they are coming from.

[TannerRawlings]

13:37 it is an artist's rendition of alcubiere drive warp drive, as far as the enterprise going sideways, the vengeance is right there, it is sharing the warp field with the vengeance, it also explains why kirk, thought he'd be safe at warp, not because of speed (he was already told of the speed) but because he (and most others at the time) did not believe it to be possible for two ships to share a warp bubble or for one to enter that of another ship, also it is not a corridor, as you can see it tapers close at the back (sure one may argue that is due to distance but i say that is the bubble closing) and any twist and turns could be 1. steering of the bubble to change course 2. instabilities that the ship deals with, so yeas, the enterprise could go sideways assuming there is another ship in the bubble, if there wasnt the bubble would collapse, and seeing the corridor is correct, as according to an alcubiere type warp drive, you're riding an isolated pocket of space-time and therefore would not be able to see out of it, as far as those who are outside? they would see nothing (unless they had sensors to detect subspace ripples/disturbances)