What is The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)? with Holly Pivec - The Alisa Childers podcast #16

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[balipsette]

I am a continuationist, I think biblically we can't escape that the gifts of the Spirit haven't ceased--but all this hyper-Charismatic, prophecy-obsessed, ultra-mystical aspect of the charismatic/NAR church is a bit much. I started to get sucked into it. Not every aspect of it was bad, and I learned a lot about listening to God's personal voice a bit more...and I've been blessed by Dan Mohler's ministry. But eventually I had to step back from ALL of it (Bethel, Dan, Todd White, etc.) because it was exhausting trying to be "spiritual" ALL the time, longing ot have "more" of God and feeling like He was holding back from me because I never got dreams or visions or anything, and I felt like I had to "act" like Todd White in order to be a next-level Christian...even though my personality could not be more opposite. I still believe in the gifts of the Spirit, but I'm not hyper about it----I'd align more with Dr. Michael Brown's beliefs about it--and even if I never saw a healing, or received a dream or vision, or heard God audibly speak to me, that's okay--because He speaks to me through His Word, and His Word is my ultimate authority over everything and everybody. Not emotion, not mysticism, and not through the worship of celebrity Christian idols.

[rhondacrawford]

Yep that is their beliefs! I almost got sucked in, I praise and Thank the Father for giving me discernment!!!

[hannahm]

As a Pentecostal Christian, I did receive good insight from this podcast, and I would say that the dangers of the NAR movement have more to do with the abuse of power and popularity, and not necessarily their direct belief that the offices of apostle & prophet are for today.
Thanks for the conversation.

[kennethcava]

At the beginning of this year, 20 "prophets and prophetesses" were asked to comment on the coming year. Not one of them even hinted about Coronavirus whatsoever. In fact many mentioned things like "increase" and expanded wealth.

[troyrichart]

Thank you this really needs to be brought to light
My family and I came out of this type of chuch about a year ago

[ericsidnell]

It strikes me that the main area of concern is not so much whether apostles and prophets are for today but rather seeing that such offices are governing offices - and the authoritarian approach that ensues. The biblical warrant for believing that the offices of apostles and prophets continue is Ephesians 4:11-13 - but when we look at that passage, it is very clear that such offices are there 'to equip the saints for the work of ministry' - there is no warrant for seeing these offices as governing or ruling offices. For me this confusion and the enuing authoritarianism is the real error of NAR.

[jvannucci]

Thank you for this insight. A dear elderly friend of mine has left her local church due to this movement and has believed many false prophecies that clearly have not come to pass. Lots of them about the election and the economy. She lives alone and came to be very dogmatic about this during the year of the covid quarantines. If I try to discuss the issues Biblically with her she cries. It has been very hard on our friendship, but I can't see how I can just smile and nod when she tells me all of this.

[RM-wgwu]

I was not in a NAR church but I was in an apostolic church with a woman apostle who lead the church. It was one of the most abusive things I’ve ever been in. There was a fear used against us to not disobey the “apostle” and “the mantle of the apostle”. It really allows for control, heresy, abuse, and division. I was there for ten years and was in the highest level of leadership but recently left. I was seen as being out of God’s will for leaving. I love listening to these podcasts as they really unmask and undo heretical belief systems I had in my life. Thank you!

[lynette_f]

I just want to say that abuse doesn't just happen in NAR/charasmatic churches. I was in three churches who bodly cliamed the gifts of the spirit are not for today etc, and they were incredibly abusive. It is a trend across all denominations.

[jaquirox]

I really like how well Holly simplifies down the exact definers of NAR. That helps me to sort of separate it’s niché in my mind. As when I study, I often see WoF, NAR, and PG as just being so very similar, it’s hard to differentiate honestly! So thank u for really explaining it’s niché definer to me! ♥️

[abdulwahabsaifee]

These things are very challenging for a new believer. I have face all kinds of hardship dealing with different people within the body of Christ.

[sarahidavila]

People dont know this, but many Assemblies of God chuches are affiliated with NAR. And there are a lot of diploma mills like the hispanic Christian University of North Carolina, which is really in NJ. And is also afilliated to NAR, and sell apostolic titles, Honorary Doctorate Degrees for a few hundred dollars, with classes through Zoom, and classes once a month. Just write an essay and bring a letter of good standing sign by 3 or 4 pastors, and now you are a doctor in theology!

[Jmart]

Thank you for producing quality material like this that we need for the body of Christ to hear, to be knowledgeable about what's really going on I'm mainstream evangelicalism. I wish it was viral like all of these videos from false teachers, but I suppose its just a sign of the times. God bless you and please keep up the good work!

[cchronis]

As a former Evangelical Protestant and someone who had family members involved in the NRA I saw early on the dangers of this movement and knew how off they were. I taught doctrine and theology in my church which led to a lot of questions. I was a faithful Protestant for over 40 years. As I started to study the early church and read the apostolic church fathers, like Polycarp, Ignatius, etc my eyes began to open. I began to see the problem with things like scripture “alone”, ( which is not taught in the Bible) faith alone and all the disagreements among supposed scholars concerning baptism, communion and what was referred to as “ open handed issues.” With some 40 thousand denominations since the Reformation (turned revolution) it’s no wonder there are many disagreements on major doctrines.
God took me on a journey to a place I never thought I would end up in. I now see all the things I wrongfully perceived the Catholic Church to be. I also see how the Catholic Church has faithfully protected the deposit of faith. The Catholic Church has known and warned about the things written in this book concerning the NRA and many other false teachings.
Truly the fullness of the faith is found in this beautiful, imperfect Church that has been here since Christ and the apostles.
It takes a willingness to humbly ask for the truth and to read church history from especially the apostolic church fathers. This Church remains the same concerning doctrine, theology and moral principles. My ignorance has been replaced with the truth through sincere prayer and study. The Catholic Church has been dealing with heresies and false teachings for over 2000 years. There’s nothing new under the sun. As a former Evangelical Protestant I can say there are good churches who share the gospel… they are just missing some things given to us by Christ and the apostles. 🙏

[AlwaysLime]

I was in a discipleship environment that was NAR, for 6 years. I was all in. I helped lead it. At the end, I was told I was a prophet. The entire time there was a huge amount of strife and disunity in my marriage, because my husband had one question repeatedly: where is that in the Bible? And we were taught that there is extra-biblical revelation from God like rhema words and revelation for The Body. 3 years ago, I felt God moving me away from that group. I was at the church where the group took place for 10 years. I’m still weeding out and detoxing, as far as truth from error. There’s a lot more peace in my marriage. I definitely agree about the concept of “levels of anointing” and levels of power/authority. It was like chasing a high… there was always a next level; greater anointing. And if your leader didn’t see you going higher (in my case), I saw told, “you have been in decline for 6 months”. I was actually 6 months pregnant at the time… that was the very beginning of the end for me in that group. The leader never treated me the same. It became like a hierarchical situation.

[terrimoulton]

We left our church in Wenatchee, WA, Sage Hills Church. They state that they are not a Bethel church but practice NAR practices. Once confronted we were just told that we didn't have to stay. So much damage going on within this culture. Even off campus bible studies led by church leaders and pastors through Jonathan Welton cult leader books!

[AlwaysLime]

I believe a lot of NAR people truly love Jesus. But maybe they’re off in the weeds a bit… or a lot. I still believe in the spiritual gifts, healing, deliverance, baptism of Holy Spirit… I just no longer believe they can only happen to or through certain people with titles/mantles/anointings. I believe Jesus hears every prayer and if it’s his will to heal, deliver, fill, etc at the time, it will take place by His Spirit. Whether it’s in a closet alone or on a stage with a leader, or at a table with a friend… it’s not so complicated as having to have prophet or apostle or pastor so and so lay hands on you that one time they’re in town to get what Jesus died for you to have; to get what Jesus wants you to have more than you want it.

[elissabellajoy]

Thanks Alisa. I really love your loving and mindful approach. May the Lord strengthen you to keep up the good work 🙏💗

[AlwaysLime]

That’s another thing my husband said: in the bible, if a prophet gets a word wrong, they die. And I told him that was OT, and we are under grace now in NT.

Something I started considering was that Christianity is supposed to be so easy that a child can believe. Following Jesus is simple enough for a child to live for Jesus. And all the training and warfare strategies are beyond complicated. As I was leaving NAR, I saw reading material being utilized that looked like horoscopes.

[JBM]

Wow these words are given to people who dont know how to hear Gods voice so they trust the person giving the word ... very dangerous and shows how unprpeared we as a Church are for anything that God wants to do through it ... unbelievable and sad