How Russell Brand indulges conspiracy culture | Naomi Klein interview

Naomi Klein is an academic and author of Doppelganger, A Trip Into the Mirror World, which dives into the industry behind conspiracy theory and right-wing propaganda in the internet age.

She swung by JOE Towers this week to speak about the book, the psychology of conspiracy theorists and how Russell Brand and Donald Trump enjoy unequivocal support from those fully immersed in the "mirror world".

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[fieldlab]

"It's easy to create support for war- all you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”

Attributed to Hermann Goering in interviews by Nuremberg psychologist Dr. Gustave Gilbert.

[ciarandunne]

I love Joe politics and I love Naomi Klein but i hate fake youtube titles! The interview has nothing to do with Russell Brand, It's about what Naomi, the intellectual that she is, and her take on the world. Why the title "How Russell Brand indulges conspiracy theory culture"?
Sensational anf stupid!

[hungrydave]

After the whole Corbyn "antisemitism" saga, its hard not to believe in conspiracy of elites... Because i saw it in real time.

[johnnypatterson]

It's easier to fool someone than for someone to admit they've been fooled.

[vickywitton]

I think after a lifetime of listening to politicians spouting this or that, ai have decided that I just want fairness. I want them to do what is right and what is fair. I want them to listen to experts and carry out strategies that will help people and the world. It is not easy to trust anyone who wants to be in power as they all seem to have an agenda of their own. WHO can we trust? I do not know!

[Lagrangeify]

This book is going to be my christmas read this year. I'm quite ashamed to admit I did get the Naomi streams crossed for a bit myself, never having read either author directly at their source but more piecemeal through their various other media work. This is a very troubling phenomena to me, one that has really gained a head of steam since the pandemic. It's going to be fascinating to see how Naomi Klein tackles it both from a more narrow personal perspective and in the more broad intellectual terms she's known for. I'll just say this very subjective and fanciful thing - there's a righteous tone we can hear sometimes, and I believe Naomi Klein transmits it very cleanly. I cannot imagine her falling off any lofty perch. My keen sense is that she is a safe pair of hands, a mind we can tap into and be better for it.

[janinegove]

I read Naomi's 'This Changes Everything" and it pretty much did. I was horrified, but more importantly I discovered just how important misinformation is as a distraction, away from very real issues we face. I have friends who believe much of the theories and it's making them ill, especially in that they're constantly stressed about things that not only are not happening, but would be beyond their control anyway. I'm looking forward to reading this one to understand my friends' worlds a little better.

[douglasmilton]

« A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what’s going on. A psychotic is someone who’s discovered everything that’s going on. » William Burroughs.

[dogmatictales]

I remember when Naomi Klein went on Russell Brand’s Under the Skin podcast back in 2016 or 17. He kept interrupting and bombarded her with flattery that bordered on creepy. At one point she actually warned his listeners about false prophets like Brand, to his face while on his show. It was great 😂

[DrMattColborn]

Excellent interview. I know quite a few young men who are JP fans. Very often, I think they found him because of an unmet need for mentorship. I'm glad Naomi discussed this issue, and other reasons why people tend to fall down the rabbit hole. Looking forward to reading your book, Naomi!

[valeriasancho]

I'm so grateful to her for tackling these issues. Looking foward to read the book. Hopefuly I'll be able to find it in Costa Rican bookstores soon.

[MrMurph]

No Logo had a massive impact on me. looking forward to reading this one

[mitchdaytonam]

If there was an award for trying to sound smarter than you really are, Russell would be in with a shout.

[ili]

Nothing said about Russell Brand in this at all. If I missed it, please reply with time-stamp.

[dazlock]

It's nice to see Oli in his dad's t-shirt and younger brothers trousers!

I kid of course, great conversation!

[gan]

Damn this was a good interview. Klein is a really interesting and intelligent person. I loved her point about how polite liberal discourse will avoid issues propegated by the far right thereby allowing them to control the conversation

[Banjo]

Klein is easily one of the best public intellectuals we have at the moment

[melvinburton]

Her first two books had a massive influence on my life, I am so glad to see that she is as insightful today as she was then.

I look forward to reading her next book.

[vksgrns]

Now, I’m a fan of JOE content – and Naomi Klein’s ‘The Shock Doctrine’ realigned the way I viewed the world; I’m a great admirer of her commentary. So I saw this, and was interested in her take on the Russell Brand... Issue let’s call it. And of course, JOE comes across as this warm, non-corporate (it isn’t, read to the end), touchy-feely, left-wing online news channel. And Oli Dugmore, bless him, with his unbranded casual clothing and that kind of deferential, non-threatening, image - he’s like a Dermot O’Leary isn’t he? And I’m not knocking him.. But WTF was that YouTube clickbait interview all about!? Spoiler alert: THE INTERVIEW IS NOT ABOUT RUSSELL BRAND INDULGING CONSPIRACY CULTURE. In fact, the first 40 seconds of the video front-loads literally everything Klein has to say about Brand throughout the whole interview. I think she only mentions his name once. No, this is Klein talking about her book. So why the clickbait headline?

When this pops up on YouTube, you see a big main image with Ms. Klein on the right of the screen, and on the left, underneath the big heading - “THIS IS A MASSIVE INDUSTRY” - you’ve got a carefully selected shot of Russell Brand looking like some kind of cult magician about to wave a Jedi spell over his followers. The title of the video is ‘How Russell Brand indulges conspiracy culture’ – a pretty self-proclaiming title – but then, in the 53 minutes and 6 seconds of content, Ms. Klein never brings him up. In fact, she doesn't even mention him until prompted to after 35 minutes when he’s awkwardly and erroneously segued in as “one of [Klein’s] doppelganger’s fellow travellers who also inhabits this mirror world ... at one point like Wolf, darling of the left and mainstream media. Now he faces very, very serious accusations of rape and sexual assault”. Eh!? How does that make Brand and Wolf similar? Oli forges ahead (35 minutes in – he’s got to get this interview to match the heading somehow) - “let’s talk about him” he insists. “Must we” Klein replies. It sounds like a Freudian slip indicating that she doesn’t really know that much about Brand, doesn’t really care about who he is, and would prefer to talk about her new book and the people that she does know about – and indeed spends most of the interview talking about - Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, and her ‘doppleganger’ Naomi Wolf. But Oli has been briefed (I assume) so he ploughs on with a couple of leading and positioning adjuncts to his questions as to whether Brand is a conspiracy theory “grifter”. But this is a false start, because immediately Klein shifts the discussion to Trump... hahaha!!! It’s obvious that she really does not want to talk about Russell Brand, but Oli has a job to do...

There’s another five minutes of Naomi Klein NOT talking about Russell Brand before Oli desperately shoehorn’s him into the discussion again - this time aligning him with Donald Trump (Really! That’s stretching it Oli mate). It doesn’t work, so he tries again a few minutes later, this time pegging him onto an association with Naomi Wolf - eventually Klein bites. So after almost 45 minutes of a 53 minute video interview entitled ‘How Russell Brand indulges conspiracy culture’, Naomi Klein tenuously references him in the topic of discussion - which is basically that entire 40 seconds you saw at the start of the interview.

Throughout this interview, Russell Brand’s name is mentioned about half a dozen times, and I think Naomi Klein utters it once. So why the big Brand headline? Why the big push to tar Brand as a conspiracy theorist “grifter”? The irony is that this interview is all about conspiracy theories, then you have an entire interview produced by a branch of a media outlet (one of Brand's typical targets is the 'mainstream' media) that has contrived to, yet woefully failed, to achieve its title’s objective of proving ‘How Russell Brand indulges conspiracy culture’. Well, let’s take a look at the touchy, feeling, lefty, independent-looking JoePolitics to get some context about where it lies in the media landscape.

PoliticsJoe is part of the Joe Media Group, which is a subsidiary of Greencastle Media Group and Greencastle Capital (based in Dublin), which are in turn subsidiaries of Linton Capital LLP, a UK investment firm based in Richmond Mews in a swanky part of West London. Both are owned and controlled by ex-rugby player David Sefton, a clever fellow who very likely rubbed shoulders with the elites of parliament whilst studying at Oxford no less.

Linton Capital is "a private equity firm based in London, United Kingdom. The firm prefers to invest through means of buyouts and acquisitions ... in the energy, technology, and media sectors” - doesn't sound so wokey, lefty, touchy-feely does it?

Greencastle Media Group has been established specifically to invest in digital and social media brands, technology and publishers, and is owned and managed by both David Sefton and Paul O’Donohoe. On LinkedIn their overview states that they ‘act as a conduit - connecting brands to our highly engaged communities that span men’s lifestyle, politics, culture, women’s lifestyle, sport and entertainment. Elevating brand engagement through original, insight driven solutions that form authentic affiliations. Using our centralised business functions, we work with brands from strategy through to creative delivery, cutting through the noise to elevate content and unleash the power of your brand by turning trends into commercial success.’ I have no truck with capitalism in general, but again, that doesn't really align with the touchy-feely lefty ideology of Joe.


In short, Joe Media is worth millions (their IPO in 2022 was valued at €25 million). So, as you take in their content and feel that it’s all touchy feely and aligned with lefty socialist values, bear in mind what the underpinning economic foundations of the channel really are and maintain an acute awareness of any bias and positioning, and any motivation for such.

[tokepanduro]

The reason we see people like Russel Brand get so much attention is because mainstream media have been failing and are failing to provide us with a somewhat correct presentation of what is going on. It has likely always been like this. SOME have provided people with the opportunity to share their ideas and interpretations. What is happening is that mainstream media no longer have a monopoly on explaining the world. Is that a good thing?.. Perhaps.