INSIGHT CHECK! DM Tips for Avoiding Metagaming in D&D

Insight Checks DONT have to work like human lie detectors and ruin some parts of the mystery on other characters motives. What if the D&D players AND the Characters were both feeling the same thing and had to use their minds and the clues around them to figure out and decide if they trust this NPC?
⏬ More Content ⏬

-------📢 Videos Mentioned -------

=== 🔗 DC Links ===

=== 📍 Credits ===
🖱️ Video Editor: Zack Newman

0:00 The Problem
1:48 Secret Insight Checks
7:30 Timeout
11:34 Outro

#DnD #DungeonsandDragons

[davinci]

Back in the day when we played together at a table, I would actually lift my DM screen and they would roll the die towards me and I would lower the screen like a portcullis. That way, they got to roll, but only I knew what they rolled.
Looking back it was kind of silly, but it was fun.

[alricfremanosrs]

I have always advocated for certain rolls to be secret DM rolls, any skill check that the player character would not know how well they did on is secret. Insight, perception, search, etc. tend to be secret, whereas physical skills like acrobatics, athletics, or attacks are rolled by players because the character would innately have a sense for how well they executed those skills. I'll make secret rolls if players promt them, but I also tend to make unannounced insight and perception checks and just feed the relevant info based on the secret check without mentioning the roll to maintain immersion.

[NobodyDungeons]

My favorite phrase as a DM is "okay now do that in character". It is so funny to see the players faces when I put them on the spot like that, and of course no one is exempt because as the DM you have to at least maintain the illusion of fairness. If someone really can't handle it, and is taking to long to figure out what they are going to say I tell them I let them slide this time but they have to speak in character. I have a signal in my in person games where you put your thumb on your head to designate out of character speech, and that tends to work fairly well and becomes a reflex of sort for some people which unfortunately doesn't work as well in online games.

[richardcampbell]

I came up with an easy way for my players to role at my table but not know the result.
I create a random d20 table behind my DM screen of the numbers 1-20.
To clarify, you make a table with the numbers 1-20 on left side of table and then the numbers 1-20 randomly distributed on right side of table. The only exceptions are numbers 20 & 1 (ie rolling a 20 is still a 20 and rolling a one is still a one).
Players roll their dice, tell the DM their total modifier and then only the DM will knows how well they did.
The excitement and despair of 20s & 1s remain but otherwise they live & die in uncertainty.
You can regenerate this table each session if you think you’re players with start to remember results. I just have three and pick one each session to hang on my screen.
Players love how it builds suspense and know that it is their roll that guided the story.

[genostellar]

Another way you could go is to still have them roll an insight check for themselves, but you make a secret counter roll of persuasion or deception against their insight. If they roll high but you roll higher, they still get bad info. If they roll low and you roll lower, they still get good info. Works especially well if you make it clear that their insight check only gives them info on how they're feeling, not necessarily the truth. So rolling low and being told that they might be right in their suspicions doesn't mean they succeeded, because the info that their feeling is correct might actually be wrong.

[ClassesandConstructs]

I love this, especially the specifications in the Time Out at the end. I think the Insight Check problem is especially difficult - compared to other aspects of players asking for rolls. Though it's difficult, and best used occasionally, I really like the secret role thing to keep plans subtle and tense.

[bsparky]

I did a table I call Rando-o-Tron for my players, they roll a d6 and d100 and give me both numbers which generates a d20 roll. I ask for those when I don't want them to know the result (stealth, perception, insight, etc). The players love it because they have no idea how the result turned out until something happens. Makes the RP and descriptions a lot of fun.

[Ko-fdlo]

I play online using fantasy grounds and they have a tower player can drop their dice in and only the DM can see the result and share the result if they wish.

[samcross]

I do this for Wisdom based checks, both insight and perception. My favorite was when our Paladin with a 6 wisdom, who knew someone in the tavern tried to poison their drinks... leaned up against their tavern room door asking if he heard anything... I secret rolled a natural 2 which was a 0 for him. There were people down the hall just casually talking, but he heard with almost absolute certainty they were about to raid the room to steal his dragonborn scales and belongings. The group freaks out and ties the bed sheets to go out the window making a lot of noise... the Paladin asks what he sees outside the window before they make their escape (Rolls a 3 = 1)... "The night seems still, but then you see something dash through the tall grass, then again, and then you see more of them... you notice they are moving without making a sound. It appears they are circling the Tavern... what do you do?". The group truly believes they are about to be ambushed and ignores the Tavern Keeper begging them to calm down on the other side of the door (their insight roll was really low too).. so they jump out in the grass, and he lets out a warcry and says, "I swing at the first thing that moves." "You swing and there is nothing there. The group realizes in your panic it was the wind passing through the tall grass..." By this point they were dying laughing and turned themselves in for public intoxication and vandalism... they were released on bond to pay back the tavern keeper for the damages... it was really funny. If you don't roll in secret you rob your players of that authentic opportunity.

[williamhoover]

I’m glad you are tackling this because this is a real rub and it’s not the players fault they have a brain and can make deductions based on how well they rolled. I have an alternative for you other than secret checks. Flip a coin or roll a 50/50 die roll of your choosing before they roll. On a heads the scale is normal on a tails the scale is inverted (rolling low is better and the dm mentally subtracts the modifier rs instead of adding and adjusts the DC. Make sure your players know this how it’s being done. This way you remove their ability to deduce the outcome based on the die roll.

[TheClericCorner]

Recently had players on an island where everyone is falling under a charm from an aboleth, unbeknownst to them. I mention 1 player is 'liking the idea of staying for a bit longer', and another player FREAKED OUT about it in game. Wish I could've hid that a bit better in hindsight 😅

[jkchannel]

Thank you for the tips! As DM i usually categorize social encounters into scenes and in a scene, i only allow my players (depending on the party size) to roll 2 or 3 insight checks, I adjust the DC and think beforehand what am i willing to give out to my players, if it was player-specific information, i drop them a secret note, never give them lies unless i was planning for the lie. To me, most of the problems related to insight check is because i don't plan ahead. I always try to stop myself from improvising even if i have to tell my players to give me 5 or 10 minute time off

[olavkvalegissinger]

This is probably one of the best homebrew rules I have introduced! I recommend everyone to use this!

[cfalkner]

At my table, I have my players drop their die into an empty toilet paper roll, and slide it to me. All of these “blind” or “dice tower” rolls require a lot of trust between you and your players. But my players have always mentioned how much they prefer this method to take the meta, and the stress away from the perception, investigation, stealth, insight, etc. rolls.

[mycl]

Secret checks I often use.

-Insight
-Intimidate (are they intimidated or just acting like they are?)
-Investigation (particularly for traps and secret doors)
-Perception (as above, or in horror/suspense. Is it real or their mind playing tricks)
-Stealth
-Thieves’ tools (disarming traps)

[hellsente]

Yep -- love it.

It intersects with the dice as story developing tools, and it personalizes information; combine it with insights (and knowledge, history, arcana, etc... ) being delivered by text message, and then the players actually need to sort through the information that is being filtered through individuals and filtered differently. Analyzing the information becomes a team activity, a roleplaying experience, and it connects the PCs as numbers on a sheet to their backgrounds, their setting (ultimately all information comes from a relationship to the world and how the character functions within it), and roles/functions in the party become something alive as do the relationships between the PCs -- they HAVE to care about listening to each other and working together or they just don't get the information.

[ddtalks]

(2:30) - Insight Check : I like to ask the players when they ask for an insight check, "What is it you are looking for?" Have the player tell you what information they are trying to gain. Perhaps they ask something that doesn't pertain to the part of the dialog that is the lie or cover up. This way, they get a focused answer to what they are trying to uncover.

Example: (the 'shady' part of this dialog is that the rat didn't take Fred away... the NPC ran away and doesn't know what happened to Fred)
NPC : "...so Yeah, the big giant rat chomped on Fred and took him away in the sewer."
PC : "Insight Check!" (discerning look...)
DM: "What are you trying to learn with your Insight Check?"
PC: "I want to know if he is lying."
DM: "What do you mean if he is lying? What don't you believe is true?"
PC: "I don't believe it was a Giant Rat."
DM: "Ok, roll for Insight"
PC: rolls 5
DM: "You think he is telling the truth. You are pretty sure he saw a Giant Rat"

This way, you can focus the roll on a specific part of the verbiage and give the player what they want to know about, without giving other parts of it away...

Alternatively:
...
DM: "What are you trying to learn with your Insight Check?"
PC: "I think he is lying. I don't believe a 'Giant Rat' could drag a whole person away"
DM: "Roll"
PC: Rolls 15
DM: "You get the sense that he believes the rat dragged Fred away, but something still doesn't sit well with you. You might be right about the weight and strength ratio of a Giant Rat and Fred the Orc being dragged away.

[johncox]

Just use passive insight vs Deception check

[livetwilightever]

I'm sure it depends on the person, but I wonder whether a player would feel more or less beholden to the result of the roll with a secret check. That is, if you say, "she's being honest, as far as your character can tell, " the player has the option to say, in character, "I think she's being honest, " or "she's not acting like she's lying, but that doesn't mean I trust her." With an open roll, which approach they take may depend on how high they rolled.
With a secret roll, they may default to "I think x" because the system encourages them to immerse themself in their character's view of the world and believe the things they believe. Or they might default to "it seems like x, but I can't be sure" because the system reminds them that they're not infallible and should be wary of making assumptions.

[davidmc]

Toward the end you say “you really don’t trust this kid” and I think this is better than “you can tell they are lying”. The social interaction rules in the DMG talk about insight discovering bonds and flaws and I think overall this may be a good way to go, “this stewards behaviour is not consistent with their job because of some flaw or secret they seem to be keeping”. As you can tell I am still trying to reverse engineer this into something cool.

There are two other ways to roll
1. The player rolls their profociency die and the dm rolls the d20.
2. The dm rolls npc deception against the PCs passive insight (fake rolls if no deception)