Can Spider-Man Stop a Train?

Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 2 remains an all-time favorite among fans, and includes one of the most iconic moments in all super hero movie history. The action packed scene finds Spider-Man trying to stop a speeding train with nothing but his super strength and spider silk. It's a classic scene, but would Spidey really have been able to stop that train? Kyle swings in for answers in this week's Because Science!

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[dreadx]

A pretty big oversight made was that Spider-Man isn't bringing the subway to a sudden stop but to a gradual stop. The idea being to use his web lines as a brake to slow the train down possiblely letting the first set of lines snap and allowing the second set to take over the load barring. All of this would allow the momentum of the train to be lost in stages and also to reduce the Olympian amount of strain on his body. Love the show and hope I can get on footnotes one day.

[runningthemeta]

You gotta give those people on the train credit for keeping Spiderman's identity a secret.

[Xenoman]

You assume that the train actually reaches 80mph, but a quick google search reveals that most New York trains only have a top speed of 55mph.
Due to safety regulations, there isn't just a lever that allows you to push the train to 80mph.

I ran the numbers and it brings the energy down to 83, 520, 000 J, Just about 1/4th the amount you calculated. Which should make it significantly easier to stop a train using 'normal' spider silk.

[ashoif]

I rewatched the train scene and noticed a few things that could have helped Spidey out 1) He tries slowing it down with his feet first, breaking a ton of the wooden beams on the track 2) He tries using only a couple webs first before he does the many webs thing and this tears out the sides of a few buildings 3) The train totally destroys the iron safety stopper at the end of the track

All of these together (along with Spidey pulling) might have helped slow the train down JUST enough

[zrcdkcm]

The "web ropes" may be pencil wide but they are composed of smaller web fibers so this should greatly increase their strength. Kind of like how ropes and strings that humans make work.

[godsoloved]

Kyle, you said he stops the train just using spider silk, but don't forget that he may have decelerated the train with his own feet against several beams of wood prior to using the silk. Plus the train smashes through a barrier at the end of the track.

[philipcollier]

Stan Lee activated the emergency brake off screen. He is always there keeping tabs on his creations and is to humble to take credit.

[crgrier]

It's hard to see in the movie clip, but in the comic Spider Man's silk is actually many strands braided together into a silk rope. Braiding the rope instead of attaching many separate strands across two points will distribute the load much better. Using multiple attachments will likely mean that some strands have a shorter effective length than others and those strands will be under more stress. That method essentially builds in weak points. Braiding negates this problem almost entirely. (I do concede that there are stress points introduced because of the braid, but those are nearly negligible in comparison to the stresses in a multiple-strand arrangement).

As the rope nears it's breaking point, weaker fibers with flaws will begin to fail. Say one fiber in a rope breaks under tension, so it isn't supporting the load anymore. At a sufficient distance from the break along that fiber, the friction with neighboring fibers is sufficient to exert the same tension on it as all the other fibers. So even though that flaw has caused damage at its point along the rope, the rest of the rope is unaffected. It's a remedy to the weakest-link of a chain problem.

I don't have numbers for the value for the braiding advantage, but if it approaches 4, Spider Man could stop the train.

[caseyblake]

I am amazed by how these videos are made. We gotta have a behind the scenes episode!

[wjhull]

Okay, quick follow-up, though: If he did stop the train with the "supernaturally tough mutant silk", would the train's structure hold up with the pressure of Spider Man's body mashing up against it? Like, at the rate of deceleration we see, would the train's front be able to withstand the force as dispersed across the area of contact with Spider Man's body, or would he punch through, resulting in the only resistance being applied to the threads themselves, and basically not so much stopping the train as turning it into a runaway convertible?


Also, if we're stopping a train with silk anchored to buildings, would the brick to which the webs are attached be strong enough as anchors? Or would it just rip a chunk out and whap around through traffic like that one scene of Spiderverse?

[ChickenpoxMalaria]

I think the main problems with it aren't the web assumptions, it's the speed and weight assumptions.
Even though the train is supposed to be going 80 mph, the max speed possible without derailing for a NYC subway car is 24.6 m/s(55mph) in modern day cars (Source:MTA), that have been in use since 2006, which is around the same time. (SM2 is 2004, but for the sake of argument lets give a little upper hand)

Also, because of the amount of light on the buildings in the scenes during the fight and during the train stop, and accounting the time of the year, I would place this incident happening in mid May, so the amount of sunlight suggests that its close to 7:30pm.
According to the MTA statistics, the amount of people going southbound in Manhattan at the time in that time of the year is about 35%, (330 people in 6 subway cars) and if it was Westbound towards the Hudson, that number is only 13%, (105 people in 6 subway cars)

That would affect the additional weight, making it easier to stop the train with normal condition spider web.

Please let me know what the math comes up to then, thanks for reading.
PS. Kyle, you rock ✊✊

[Yourname]

Even if the web is strong enough, and Spiderman's arms don't get pulled apart, wouldn't the brick/concrete material that the webs connect to be ripped out from the surrounding walls? (ie wouldn't they be ripping out chunks of the wall with the train pulling on them?)

[MysteryBounty]

New Because Science, day officially improved!

[Brandon-eohj]

Kyle, I've been watching Because Science ever since your earliest marvel theories (such as moving Mjolnir in space, thor flying, etc.) and I gotta say that this has made me love science fiction and science in general.

Recently though I've been playing a popular game I think you'd like called Subnautica, a very science-based game in the near distant future where your character is stranded on a mostly-oceanic planet as one of the only survivors of a space ship crash, and in the game one of your earliest tools of survival is called The Fabricator, which is a machine that can take surrounding elements and items (from your inventory) and make something else out of them, be it complicated, finished machines or other materials.

My question is this: would this machine be safe enough to use in a close range (like inside an escape pod), and how close are we to making a machine like this right now? Or is it just simply fiction entirely?

Keep up the great work!

[Cristopher.C]

Damn it kinda creeped me out when he said "Thank you for watching, Christopher".. I know its not me, but still wasnt expecting it

[bardock]

Hey Kyle, wouldn’t the buildings toughness fail with that amount of force being pulled on said building? Love the show.

[tewfus_]

So gravity doesn’t work on Kyle’s hair if he’s upside down but wearing a spider man mask? What’s the science behind that? Enquiring minds want to know

[kutyla]

Can Spider-Man stop a train ?

- Yes we saw it in the movie 😂

[notesmaker]

His legs! The missing factor! He was also applying frictional force through his legs onto the track.

[cafevampire]

Another top quality Because Science 👌
Thanks Kyle, for working so hard on making these videos, as well as footnotes, livestreams and the Mortal Kombat videos! They're all really fun and interesting to watch and really helpful for learning more about science. It must be difficult to be so energetic and spend so much time on your work and I really appreciate it. Also, thanks to Nate, Pan, the MK Minions and all the other behind the scenes crew that make Because Science possible as well!