The Failed Apocalypse of Jesus - Dr. Dale C Allison Jr Part#3

The earliest traditions around the narrative of Jesus' resurrection are considered in this landmark work by Dale C. Allison, Jr, drawing together the fruits of his decades of research into this issue at the very core of Christian identity.

Allison returns to the ancient sources and earliest traditions, charting them alongside the development of faith in the resurrection in the early church and throughout Christian history. Beginning with historical-critical methodology that examines the empty tomb narratives and early confessions, Allison moves on to consider the resurrection in parallel with other traditions and stories, including Tibetan accounts of saintly figures being assumed into the light, in the chapter “Rainbow Body”.

Finally, Allison considers what might be said by way of results or conclusions on the topic of resurrection, offering perspectives from both apologetic and skeptical viewpoints. In his final section of “modest results” he considers scholarly approaches to the resurrection in light of human experience, adding fresh nuance to a debate that has often been characterized in overly simplistic terms of “it happened” or “it didn't”.

================================

Cashapp: 👉 $rewiredaddiction
Venmo: 👉 @Derek-Lambert-9
Twitter: 👉 @DerekPodcast
Instagram: 👉 @dereklambert_7

===========================

#DaleAllison #Resurrection #MythVision

[c.a.t.]

My theory is that Jesus meant to come back when he said he would, but he got lost... it is a very big universe after all. Idea for a TV series: "Jesus, Lost In Space".

[davidburroughs]

SDA's and JW's both came down line from the Millerites as they tried to roll with the punches of failed prophecies by their inspired prophets. All the christians do this.

[GnosticInformant]

Just matched the 35$ that was on there

[piano]

Oh, man... with this title i can hit the like button without having watched yet! Thanks again Derrek! Jewish and christian apocalypticism... my favourite subject!

[Darisiabgal]

The issue of death and evil became a major topic in the first half of the video. And the point being mentioned that somehow if Adam had avoided knowledge of good and evil, that somehow god would have left him to eat at the tree of the knowledge of life and gain immortality. In following the snake Adam caused all mankind to die, and therefore Jesus had to give his life to pay for Adam’s sin.

Let us dissect this theology into its components and rationalize it.
The first statement is that Adam is the first among men, which the Bible later contradicts by indicating how the sons of Adam came to have wives. Thus Adam was the first among Yahweh made men, whatever that means.
So let’s zero out preconceptions and get down to basics, what necessitates death of the organism.
Rational 1. Procaryotes and Archaea do not need to die, by cloning themselves those that exist today existed since the beginning of life on Earth, there is a lineage of living back to the first cell, most cells have died, but the cells that are alive today are from an undying lineage. A cell, that first cell common to all life, never died, it replicated itself and through cycles of replication. Also, it lives in every single living human, from the Archaean lineage in the nucleus of your cells, to the Procaryotes lineage in your mitochondria. Neither lineage has died, they are still alive. Your body may die but you live on in your offspring.
Rational 2. In the course of evolution, particularly following the great oxygenation event, Eucaryotes first developed complex life cycles that included phases of asexual reproduction and episodically sexual phases. These sexual phase were frequently triggered by environment change or stress. A motif of the cells was to produce recombinant gametes, exchange gametes with another of its kind, and then produce a cyst that could survive the calamity, and then hatch during the restoration. The parents of these cells died in order to guaranteed the maximum success of offspring. In C. elegant this still happens, an unstarved worm eventually is eaten from the inside out by her offspring, if she is starved, she is eaten sooner, and the last hatched of the offspring, if small enough can enter a quiescent phase that can tolerate stress for a number of days, before either dying and resuming growth in the presence of food. Sexual reproduction and death was a way to deal with stress both in simple Eucaryotes and in complex Eucaryotes.

In animals eventually a sperm shaped single cell began forming colonies, like a sponge and differentiated. From the early colonial animals free moving animals evolved, some with sessile phase. Some of these complex organisms developed genders. The gender to host specific role gametes. Once again the role of the organism is to grow, mature, produce and exchange gametes. The need for a stress event is put aside. Growth is programmed, maturation is programmed, the reproductive life is programmed and for almost all mammals death is programmed into our genetic code.

Rational 3. Death comes about because under selection pressure, particularly for the adult male testes, it is better to produce progeny up to a certain age, and the marginal advantage begins to decline as spermatogenesis becomes plagued with genetic mutations (SNPs). It is healthier for the population of whatever animal that male DNA no longer enter the gene pool for an animal of a certain age. (This depends on fidelity of DNA damage repair, percentage of early cells devoted to gamete production, the age of initial sperm production and the rate of gamete production). For example, it makes no sense for a chimpanzee male to live as long as a human male because they developed sooner, and because of “sperm selection” they must make sperm at a higher rate, by the time a chimpanzee is in his forties he probably has dozens to hundreds of SNPs in each sperm some of those SNPs are deleterious to his offspring. For females the reason is somewhat different, although there is a second female “parent” advantage in extended families with grandparents, it tends to drop by the time a woman becomes a great grandparent. When the selective advantage that one has for living begins to decline and living impedes the advantage in the filial, or second filial, then selection would favor programmed death. This manifest in many animals by the inability to elongate telomeres in order to allow cell division.

So as we come to Adam, is he the first sexually reproducing animal, in which case god grants him the ability to have children therefore causing death. Then Adam was a spermatozoon shaped life form, and so BtW, how did we humans get the story? god told us, the god that took our longevity then later explains why? and we believed him? Why should we believe this? The second story is that Adam was not human, since humans are not immortal, never in their creation. So in order for Adam to become mortal god had to make Adam human. Ok so Adam was clay, became a god-like being, but then was demoted to human. Eve likewise was clay, then a rib in Adam, the a goddess-like being, then female. So let’s rationalize these two apologetics. First why create humans if humans already existed, second how do you create an immortal male, take out all the DNA, elongate the telomere, and create an autoelogation regulatory system, next take his testes and slow down replication I’d cells by say 10, 000 fold or increase DNA damage repair. In females, slow down the menstration cycle or have estrus only periodically. Both male and female reproduction should be triggered periodically, say every few decades. Also you need some sort of trauma center and vaccination program to deal with diseases and injuries. I don’t think these were written in the book of life. So we have to conclude rationally that death did not come to the world from Adam’s sin or from being deprive of the fruit of the tree of life.

Think about it like this, it is because you want the best for your children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, great grandchildren that you die. The reason you have children is so that they, some of them, about half, will have a better chance to adapt to the changing world than you do. Because of this you relieve your corpse to ashes and dust, so that which you once used (the fruits and meat) can be used by your filial generations. That is not a sin, it’s a type of devotion. Secondarily you can also think like this, if you enjoy sex with your partner and the rearing of offspring, there is a price to be paid. The math is such if for instance if every person in Jericho lived, at some point several thousand years ago, there would be no space left for the next generation. Now imagine we roll this logic backwards to the beginning of humans 2.1 million years ago.

Moreover with regard to sex and the sinfulness of sex as implied in parts of the Bible, the theology is both immature and ignorant. The desire to procreate and execution thereof are essential parts of the process that allows the most rapid and beneficial recombination. It is because of recombination of traits that allowed humans to generalize in their foraging behaviors by developing language and tool building skills. It is because of sexual reproduction and sex that we are able to write, read, speak grammatically, communicate with each other.
And also that we generate from within our imaginations and spirit gods, including one Called Yahweh and another one called Lord Jesus Christ (at least one very annoying Taurine Pharisee did). Without sex and death, there are no gods. Therefore arguing that god can bring an end to death and evil is essentially begging the question can humans live on and be happy without bodies.

As I have said, death is part of life. Live life with great spirit, it is only through this that we carry on.

[apostlepaul]

Jesus told His followers that they will do greater works than Him (John 14:12) has this been the case so far?

[bernardofitzpatrick]

Nice one🤙🏽✌🏽you are a friendly interviewer and it’s great to question this stuff. Liked his statement of when it doesn’t work on the horizontal, in terms of prophecy, they move to the vertical. I guess that way they “have their cake and eat it” lol

[berglen]

Imaginations is God in man, looing outside for yourself is classic, blindness till ya wake up.

[The_CR_Phil]

First time I've watched a video by the interviewer. He's not a good interviewer (he likes to talk on and on), but I like Allison. I'll watch Allison on other videos instead of here.

[chiricahuaapache]

Why would anyone want to live forever?

[jamaalrichardson]

Can you put up the links to Part 1 and 2 on the description. Not so much for me, now, but for other folks who are coming to this video from "suggested videos".

[mnamhie]

Derek, I think you are mistaken about death and that sin is why we physically die. Remember, there were two trees in the Garden; the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life. Gen. 3:22 makes it clear that the tree Adam and Eve ate from was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Ye shall surely die means you'll no longer be in communion with God. You'll be spiritually dead. God will be separated from you. Man was always prone to physical death. This is clear from the same verse. God says "lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever” then banishes Man from the Garden. If Adam had eaten of the tree of life he would then have eternal life. He did not have eternal life when he was created and does not to this day.

[corneliuslucy]

Explain what afflicted means in Leviticus 23:26-32

[PlanetDeLaTourette]

Interesting channel. You're doing a good job handling a diversity of people. The set up is welcome and needed.

[LM-jzvh]

I agree with mainstream scholarship on the historical Jesus (e.g., E.P. Sanders, Geza Vermes, Bart Ehrman, Dale Allison, Paula Fredriksen, et al.) that Jesus was a *failed apocalyptic prophet.* Such a hypothesis, if true, would be a simple one that would make sense of a wide range of data, including the following twenty-one (or so):

D1. John the Baptist preached a message of repentance to escape the imminent judgment of the eschaton. Jesus was his baptized disciple, and thus accepted his message -- *and in fact preached basically the same message.*

D2. Many (most?) of Jesus’ “Son of Man” passages are most naturally interpreted as allusions to the Son of Man figure in Daniel. This figure was an end of the world arbiter of God’s justice, and *Jesus kept preaching that he was on his way (e.g., “From now on, you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Matt. 26:64).* Jesus seems to identify himself with this apocalyptic figure in Daniel, but I'm not confident whether this identification is a later redaction. Either way, it doesn't bode well for orthodox Christianity.

D3. The earliest canonical writing (I Thess): *Paul taught of an imminent eschaton, and it mirrors in wording the end-time passages in the synoptics* (especially the so-called "Little Apocalypse" in Mark, and the subsequently-written parallels in Matthew and Luke).

D4. Many passages attributed to Jesus have him predicting the end within his generation *(“the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Repent and believe the good news” (Mark 1:15); “this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” (Mark 13:30); “truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes” (Matthew 10:23); “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.” (Mark 9:1); "From now on, you shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds..." (Matthew 26:64)).*

D5. A sense of urgency permeates the gospels and the other NT writings. E.g., *the disciples must hurry to send the message to the cities of Israel before Daniel’s “Son of Man” comes; Jesus' statement that even burying one’s parents has a lower priority; Paul telling the Corinthians not to change their current state, since it’s all about to end (e.g., don’t seek marriage, or to leave one's slave condition, etc., since the end of all things is at hand; and on and on, all the way through the NT corpus).*

D6. Relatedly, Jesus and Paul taught a radical "interim ethic" (e.g., don’t divorce, radical forgiveness, don’t judge others, love one’s enemies, etc.). *This makes sense if they believed that the eschaton would occur within their generation, and that all needed to repent and prepare for its arrival.*

D7. Jesus had his disciples leave everything and follow him around. This makes sense if Jesus believed that he and they were to be God’s final messengers before the eschaton.

D8. Jesus gathered twelve disciples, which is the number of the twelve tribes of Israel. He also said they were to sit on twelve thrones and serve as judges of the twelve tribes of Israel. This reflects the common expectation that at the end of days, all twelve tribes would return to the land. The twelve are a symbolic representation of restored Israel.

D9. *There is a clear pattern of a successive watering down of Jesus’ prediction of the eschaton within the generation of his disciples, starting with Mark (widely believed among NT scholars to be the first gospel written), and continuing through the rest of the synoptic gospels.* By the time we get to John, the last gospel written, the eschatological "kingdom of God" talk is dropped (except for one passage, and it no longer has clear eschatological connotations), along with the end-time predictions, and is replaced with "eternal life" talk. *Further, the epistles presuppose that the early church thought Jesus really predicted the end within their lifetimes.* Finally, this successive backpedaling continues beyond the NT writings and into those of the apocrypha and the early church leaders, even to the point where some writings attribute an anti-apocalyptic message to Jesus. *All of these things make perfect sense if Jesus really did make such a prediction, and the church needed to reinterpret his message in light of the fact that his generation passed away, yet the eschaton never came.*

D10. Jesus’ base followers were all considered to represent the “bottom” of society in his day: the poor, sinners, prostitutes, outcasts, tax collectors, lepers, and the demon-possessed. This is perfectly in line with the standard apocalyptic doctrine of the reversal of fortunes when the kingdom of God comes: “the first shall be last, and the last shall be first”.

D11. Jesus performed many exorcisms, which he claimed marked the inbreaking of the kingdom of God on Earth. They were thus signs of the imminent apocalypse. Satan and his minions were being cast out of power, and God’s power was taking its place.

D12. Jesus’ trip to Jerusalem for the Passover Celebration, and his subsequent activities there, are best explained in terms of his apocalyptic message and his perceived role in proclaiming it. *Jesus went to the temple during the Passover Festival, and spent many days teaching about his apocalyptic message of the imminent coming kingdom of God.* The apocalyptic message included the idea that the temple in Jerusalem would also be destroyed.

D13. Jesus caused a disturbance in the temple itself, which appears to have been a symbolic enactment of his apocalyptic teaching about the temple’s destruction.

D14. Jesus’ betrayal by Judas Iscariot, and Jesus’ subsequent arrest, is best explained in terms of Judas’ betraying to the religious authorities (the Sadducees and the chief priests) Jesus’ teaching (to his inner circle of disciples) that he would be the King of the Jews in the coming Kingdom of God.

D15. Jesus was executed on the charge of political sedition, due to his claim that he was the King of the Jews. His execution was therefore directly related to his apocalyptic message of the imminent coming of the kingdom of God.

D16. *The fact that not just Paul, but also all the other NT authors believed the end would occur in their generation* makes perfect sense if Jesus really did make such claims

D17. *The fact that the early church believed the end would occur in their lifetime* makes perfect sense if Jesus really did make such claims

D18. Consider also E.P. Sanders’ argument: the passages that attribute these predictions to Jesus and Paul satisfy the historical criteria of multiple attestation (and forms), embarrassment, earliest strata (Mark, Q, M, L, Paul’s earliest letters, the ancient “Maranatha” creed/hymn) etc., thus strongly indicating that these words go back to the lips of Jesus.

D19. Jesus’ parables: virtually all explicitly or implicitly teach a message *about an imminent eschaton.*

D20. *Jesus’ “inversion” teachings (e.g., "The first shall be last, and the last shall be first"): a common theme among Jewish apocalypticists generally.* The general message of apocalypticists is that those who are evil and defy God will not get away with it forever. The just are trampled, and the unjust prosper; thus, this situation needs to be inverted – as it will be when the “Son of Man” from the book of Daniel comes to exact God’s judgment at any moment.

D21. The fact that the first generation church didn’t write biographies about Jesus, but instead the second generation church wrote the gospels composed of bits of sayings attributed to him, *would make sense if his followers believed that the End would occur so quickly (based on Jesus’ teachings) that such a task would be pointless.*

D22. The earliest Christians believed that Jesus' putative resurrection was (to use Paul's terminology) the "first fruits" of the general resurrection of the dead at the end of time. This is an agricultural metaphor. When farmers reaped and ate the first fruits of the harvest, they would then reap the full harvest the very next day -- the "general" harvest was "imminent", as it was "inaugurated" with the reaping of the first-fruits. Similarly, the earliest Christians believed that the final judgement and the general resurrection were imminent, given their belief that Jesus' resurrection was itself the inaugurating event of the general resurrection and the end of all things. Thus, there is a continuity between the beliefs of the early Christians and the beliefs of many Jews of his time: Jesus' resurrection was fundamentally construed in these eschatological terms

Furthermore, consider:

D23. Certain relevant data in the book of Revelation:

-The author is talking about events *within his day.*

-He attributes a quick return to Jesus -- *one that would occur in his day.*

-Using the cipher language of gematria, he names Nero as “the Beast” (in ancient languages such as Hebrew and Greek, letters served double-duty as numbers. Thus, it was common to refer to someone without actually saying their name by stating the number that the letters in their name adds up to). *Well, Ceasar Nero’s name adds up to 666, and he was ruling and persecuting the church during the time that the book of Revelation was written. In fact, some manuscripts of the Book of Revelation have the number read ‘616’, which turns out to add up to a slightly less formal version of Nero’s name!), thus clearly indicating that the end was supposed to be imminent.*

Watch "Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet, Historical Lecture - Bart D. Ehrman" on YouTube

[PeterShieldsukcatstripey]

Don't think there are any egos in the after life.

[bouncycastle]

The world isn't better than it was in 70AD? What a hilariously confused man.

[briendoyle]

His body was placed in a tomb.
But three days later, the tomb was empty ?!
And the man, alive once again but still with his wounds
(so anyone who doubted could see them and touch them), appeared to many people in many places.


Then he ascended into heaven and now sits at the right hand of his god the father almighty, never to be seen again....?? wow!


hahaha

[Jkcardthrower]

Have you ever heard the mid acts dispensationalist argument? That's what I got pigeonholed into. Where when Jesus saves Paul he pauses all the eschatology.

[philliprobinson]

Hi Dale. The great thing about Christian theology is that it's so wonderfully plastic. Anyone can make a case for anything, and never be proven wrong. This means no theologist should ever find himself out of a job. With Jesus teaching in parables such that some of his listeners "might not understand" (Matt 13:13), & (Mk 4:10-12), and parables having the flexibility to be interpreted any way one wants, the need to be unambiguously specific is removed. Even failed prophesies have been explained away as proof that God has acted. When a "no show" is sufficient evidence to believe, the golden cord connecting us to truth is cut. Simple direct personal honesty was not taught by Jesus, and needs to be taught now. Cheers, P.R.