Wholeness and Fragmentation: The Life and Work of David Bohm

Day 337

What is "meaning" or "value" or "implications" of David Bohm's work for the world we live in today?

David Bohm has been described as one of the most significant and original thinkers of the twentieth century whose interests and influence extend well beyond the field of physics to include philosophy, psychology, language, religion, art, creativity, thought, and education. Underlying his innovative approach to these many different issues was the fundamental idea that beyond the visible, tangible world there lies a deeper, implicate order of undivided wholeness.

"Some might say: ‘Fragmentation of cities, religions, political systems, conflict in the form of wars, general violence, fratricide, etc., are the reality. Wholeness is only an ideal, toward which we should perhaps strive.’ But this is not what is being said here. Rather, what should be said is that wholeness is what is real, and that fragmentation is the response of this whole to man’s action, guided by illusory perception, which is shaped by fragmentary thought.”
― David Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order

Panelists
D.Beth Macy, Ph.D. The common thread weaving through Beth's career has been change, having been a manager, leader, consultant or participant in organizations experiencing difficult issues: organizations from small to large, private to public, non-profit to profit, health care to oil and gas, local to global. David Bohm's dialogue has been core to her research, writing and consulting and teaching for nearly three decades. Living in the USA (Texas) she is completing a book on the ideas and individuals who influenced Bohm’s process of dialogue.
Hester Reeve has a practice encompassing live art, philosophy, drawing, David Bohm’s ‘Dialogue’ and social sculpture. She is interested in the relationship between critical thinking and human agency in everyday life, particularly when it is risked through the figure of ‘the artist’ (where what constitutes an artist is broadly conceived and not exclusive to art school training). Recent public works have been staged at Tanzquartier, Vienna, Tate Britain (working under the umbrella of The Emily Davison Lodge with Olivia Plender) and the Yorkshire Sculpture Park.Hester Reeve is Reader in Fine Art at Sheffield Hallam University
David Schrum is a quantum theorist who studied under David Peat (doctoral) and with David Bohm (post-doctoral). He taught at Cambrian College, Sudbury, Canada until retirement. David’s concerns include an enquiry into understanding human consciousness, with particular emphasis on the dialogue process. His present scientific work is development of a quantum theory of mass.
Shantena Sabbadini graduated from the University of Milan in 1968 and was awarded his PhD in physics from the University of California in 1976. In Milan he researched the foundations of quantum physics, laying the base for what is currently known as the decoherence interpretation of quantum physics. At the University of California, he contributed to the theoretical work behind the first identification of a black hole, the X-ray source Cygnus X-1. In the 1990s he was scientific consultant for the Eranos Foundation, an East-West research center founded under the auspices of C.G. Jung in the 1930s. In that context he produced various translations and commentaries of Chinese classics in Italian and English, including the Yijing and the trilogy of Daoist classics, the Laozi, the Zhuangzi and the Liezi. From 2002 onwards he collaborated with F. David Peat running the Pari Center for New Learning and in 2017 he succeeded his friend and colleague as director of the center.
Convener:
Jim Garrison, President, Ubiquity University

[michaelcwkwong]

Thanks for the wonderful sharing with memory of our great physicist David Bohm😁🙏🙏🙏

[fineasfrog]

Regarding the comment at about 57:45 "We sometimes talk about achieving wholeness but I think Bohm would say: no everything is whole, it is one whole 'system'". Yes, I would say so too. So why do we seem to fall into so much fragmentation? Perhaps Krishnamurti would say the only thing that divides us is identification with thought or what we might call thought-forms rather than what Krishnamurti referred to as that wholeness of energy that has it own intelligence, love, compassion and courage. We might could say it is "that" which K is speaking of which takes on the form of a body and what we call a human being. Consider the newborn: it has no knowledge of what it is; yet, this energy that is "behind" or implicate to the manifestation at least has two capacities as manifestation. It can know and it can identify. The newborn doesn't even know it has arms, leg, body and a mouth. However the impressions through the outer five senses in interaction with the mother and the environment results in the implicit knowledge around the age of two or so that implicitly says "I am 'in here' in this separate body and mother is 'out there' in that separate body and all objects and other bodies are 'out there' for I don't find anyone in here with me, I find only me "in here". This can be seen to be that which leads to a sense of separation form the whole. And as we learn to identify not with the whole but with "this and that" we see ourselves as these fragments (gender, nationality, so-called race, the identification with divisions can be endless.
We can see how the organization of the impressions implicitly forms a 'template' over our consciousness that gives us a view, a mode of perception, that we call the subject-object mode of perception. I, the subject, am 'in here' and all the 'objects' I know or encounter are 'out there'. The real fact is we are originally a wholeness of the whole, however we learn via this mode of perception to see and feel ourselves to be separate. This mode of perception is necessary but we do wish to remain identified with that single mode of perception. We take the subject to be separate from the object and never the twain shall me; in our mind they always will remain as two. While this view is partial, it functions as if it is the whole story of reality or "what is". And when we have the great power to act (atomic bomb, genetic manipulation and general artificial intelligence); if these acts are not aligned with the total ecology of the whole, there can be the elimination of our life support systems. It could result in the end of life on Earth as we know it. The inner traditions say we are made in the image of the whole so we may yet come to see what we can do and only do that which is aligned with the whole. May it be so, as it is already so in the unseen implicate order. We need people with the vision and understanding of the whole via that energy that as Krishnamurti said has it own intelligence, wisdom, love, compassion and courage. Thanks be.

[simulacro]

Can you tell us from which artist is the music of the beginning of the video? Thank you!

[CapacitacionBiblicaADC]

The Bible has the answer to the questions and discussions share here but perhaps using different "words" :) However, How can we be sure that our thoughts, feelings and beliefs are true and reliable to lead us to the right way, UNLESS we acknowledge and trust "a Source of Truth" to rely on?. ALL TRUTH is not only reflected in the Bible, the Word of Yahweh, but it is also reflected and manifested in the physical world, including nature and humanity. True science will always point out to Biblical and spiritual truths as well because truth is truth, and truth is always 100%.

The only solution, hope and transformation offered to humanity is "Conversion" (or a new birth from Above, as the Bible calls it). However, "this conversion or supernatural change" can't be done by human effort ONLY, but by our acknowledgement and faith (belief) on "The Source of Truth and Light". Christ has already given "the Answers" we need, but people have "the carnal tendency" to reject the answers they don't like to hear, or that don't fit with their way of thinking. People who are not oppened to expand and reflect on those truths they don''t like so much to begin with, but that will lead them to "abundant Life". The carnal nature of man (without God's Holy Spirit) is what lead people "to protect selfish desires and interests." But our only HOPE is to consider ourselves dead to "Selfishness" so "the Spirit of Christ" can dwell IN us forever.

Did you know that The Creation 7th day Adventist Church has been teaching converted men and women by God's Spirit to know how to process their own thoughts and feelings (by learning the Truth and unlearning wrong concepts, habits and beliefs) to be part of "the Whole", "the Oneness" that the Bible calls "the Spirit of the Father and the Son"? It is the Spirit of God what has been holding everything together, including the physical world we see. HOWEVER, there is also ANOTHER reality that humanity can't ignore in their dialogs, and personal experiences, and that is the "Realitity of Sin." "Sin" is not only a religious word, it is also "a physical reality and a physical manifestation of fragmentation and bondage to darkness and destruction. The "only Hope" already communciated to humanity is Yahshua (The Jesus of the Bible), as their personal savior/liberator FROM sin. There is little time left to try to figure everything out with our limited minds, language and understanding affected by the consecuences of sin. God has already left us ALL the answers. Yahweh loves you all, but His love represents ONLY ONE WAY OF DOING THINGS, THE PROPER ORDER, to the receive the Gift He has been offering for quite some time. The Good News for humanity is "Christ IN you, the hope of glory, " but the Creator will not force anyone, free will is your GIFT to choose to live or to chose to die. God's love is not selfish, but sin is our enemy, the cause of destruction and God wants to free us from that, to receive the MIND OF CHRIST.

Thank you for allowing your audience the freedom of speech :) I appreciate it. Thank you for facilitating these discussions.