ICF vs SIPs vs Framing - Pros and Cons

Insulated Concrete Forms vs Structural Insulated Panels vs Traditional Platform Framing. In this video I will give you the pros & cons for all three of these building systems. While most homes in the US/Canada are built with traditional framing is that the best system? And what about Insulated Concrete Forms or Structural Insulated Panels, what advantages do these have? I've built homes with all three of these systems in my 24 years as a Builder, so I'll give you my thoughts along with a cost comparison.
A few of the videos I mentioned in today's Build Show:
This Pink Stuff is The Secret to ICF Waterproofing -

BUILD SHOW AMAZON STORE with all my favorite Books, Tools, Knives, Gadgets!

Huge thanks to our Show sponsors Polywall, Huber, Dorken Delta, Prosoco, Rockwool & Viewrail for helping to make these videos possible! These are all trusted companies that Matt has worked with for years and trusts their products in the homes he builds. We would highly encourage you to check out their websites for more info.

[quinnlanzinger]

I am an ICF exclusive builder, who has used it all. I was raised in a family of custom home builders - all using the traditional method. We tried adopting SIPS, but found that it wasn't the easiest to work with, however the overall build was much better than traditional methods. Then we started to use ICF... WOW. I'm a civil engineer by study, and this stuff impressed the heck out of me. You cannot beat the user-friendliness, ease of construction, air tightness, strength, sound barrier, etc. I decided to start a business only doing ICF, as that's how strongly I believe in the product. I've also used almost all the brands out there, and in my opinion, the superior one is Integra Spec. For its ease of use and minimal waste especially when compared to other ICF brands. Not only is it 100% recycled material, but it keeps much more waste out of the landfills (or you can look at it that we're not throwing the clients money in the landfill either...)

[mruehle]

Great presentation, as always! Just some personal observations and added info on the SIPS. I am a timber framer so I use SIPS above grade for most of my builds, and conventional foundation or ICF below grade. Some projects will be ICF to the top of the exterior walls, with timber frame trusses for the roof structure, and SIPS panels for the roof enclosure.

1) One of the most common concerns I hear from the trades about SIPS is that the electrician expects the wiring to be difficult or restrictive. (And the sheetrock installers and plumbers have concerns about the timber frame, but that's another subject.) There are a few types of SIPS, and they are good for different situations. EPS (white polystyrene) and XPS (extruded polystyrene - pink board) SIPS are glued up from flat sheets, and the way the layers are built leaves a void or chase in known position within the panel, generally at 2 ft intervals. So the easiest electrical layout is to place outlets and switches at these locations. The first time is tricky, but it gets pretty easy to router the box opening and fish the Romex through the panels. You can also easily router to a point not where the chase is, as long as the cuts you make are not more than about 1/3 of the panel size in either dimension so as not to lose the panel's structural capacity. BUT when you use SIPS on a timber frame, they are *not* acting as a load-bearing structural wall to support vertical load -- the timber frame does that. They are acting as a shear wall, so in fact only a fraction of the SIPS shear capacity is being used. That means that, as long as engineering OKs the location, you might even be able to cut straight across a panel without compromising anything. We sometimes specify non-structural SIPS (maybe they're IPS?) for timber frames, where there's OSB on one side and a finish surface like sheetrock or pre-installed T&G on the other.

Another alternative is to use polyurethane foamed SIPS, less common, but they can have the electrical conduit and boxes preinstalled exactly where needed. Again, last-minute changes can be made with a router, if necessary, under some limits. This will work better in jurisdictions (like Chicago) that do not allow Romex and require all wiring to be in conduit. Care has to be taken when connecting panels to the floor plate and to each other that the conduit stubs line up and get properly connected - I like to install a piece of pull-line as I go to make the electrician's job easier.

2) Another point to make is about SIPS thickness, especially for roof eaves. Depending on the type -- EPS, XPS or PU -- achieving the R value for the roof may result in an unpleasantly thick roof eave thickness, especially if it's plumb-cut. To exceed R-49, you need a 12-1/4" EPS panel (and a bit of extra... that's just R-44) OR an 10-1/2" XPS panel OR an 8-1/4" PU panel. Plumb cut, the 12-1/4 and 10-/12" panels can be too thick. It's possible to make these end at the wall plane and build out the eaves with stick framing. It's also possible to order the EPS and XPS SIPS with either voids for, or preinstalled, 2x material lookouts. That's a bit of extra work. While the insulation is not doing any work out there, the PU SIPS can just run out full length past the wall and it's structurally OK for up to 24" and requires some bracing if longer. The tradeoff is the added cost of SIPS material versus the added labor of building the eaves separately.

3) I have done EPS SIPS installations with 4 x 8 blank SIPS panels site cut etc. and while it can be cheaper, and for some hard-to-get-to sites might be the only way to transport the panels there, it is *messy*. I don't think the client appreciates little bits of white styrofoam blowing about the property. It's not like sawdust or other construction debris. So I don't like to do even site-cut window and door openings on large panels anymore. I lean towards having full-sized pre-cut, pre-blocked panels made, even if it means a day or two of crane work or a big telehandler. The interior electrical work-created foam bits are easier to contain and keep clean.

4) You had a presentation about slab versus pier foundations. One low-cost option that is interesting for cold climates is to build a pier foundation on poured concrete piers or helical piles, connected by beams. I have used this with the pier locations also acting as the point load support for the timber frame posts. The exterior SIPS are then acting as simply insulation and shear wall, not bearing wall. 

So how does this relate to SIPS? Well, you can span between the lower part of the pier-to-pier beams with SIPS for a sufficient insulation value, with enough space left above for plumbing, electrical etc. A weather-proof, pest-proof panel (e.g. fiber-cement board) is preinstalled on the floor SIPS before they are dropped into place. There is a waterproof, airtight flexible gasket placed on the strips that support the SIPS. And a debris/critter screen may be installed around the perimeter, for example: perforated Corten steel sheet. Far less use of concrete, and no residual humidity issues inside from the concrete slab curing (which is why so many of the concrete slab/basement homes have initial high humidity problems). I'm just starting a project like this in Michigan.

[LK-ksdk]

I bought an iCF house in Montana, and it's amazingly efficient. 3400 square feet of livable space, and our gas bill last February was only $93.

[okok]

I live in a 10" thick SIP house that is 23 years old here in Arizona, absolutely love it. Low ac bill, well sealed, also fiberglass R values drop with temperature, polystyrene and other sip material does not. Desert climate here so no humidity issues. Very quiet inside too. I will say it's so well sealed, CO2 levels and poor air quality can be an issue. I'd recommend builders install a central whole house fan for air quality, fresh air turnover. The previous owners let the roof go bad and it leaked, one wall rotting the inner OSB out, however the repairs were relatively easy to reglue new OSB and sheetrock over. Hanging pictures on exterior walls is super easy. the electrical outlet and lighting placement was not well though out on this construction. I would like to expand the house with an addition but finding a contractor to do it right or even want to is hard. I may have to do it myself.

[gfarrell]

Speaking as an architect, I feel like I should get an AIA continuing education credit after watching this video.

[scbenna]

I built an ICF house 21 years ago and love it. It is amazingly quiet and comfortable.

[HoopHelps]

Hey mate, did a 4000 sqft walkout basement in ICF Foxblock. Loved it! Expensive, but ended up a lovely home. Self taught, did a 52x32 shop 1st to cut my teeth on, I'm not a builder but very mechanical and good with my hands. Engine builder and truck driver by trade. Built said house in Missouri, I was owner builder, did all ICF myself successfully, the now owners love the place!
Love your channel, very informative! Getting ready to build again, some kind of modest shop home on a slab, probably with radiant floor heating. Will continue following, thanks. Wyatt.

[mattpellico]

I replaced the foundation on my 100+ year old house using an ICF with this twist: We formed the walls traditionally with 8 foot vertical 3/4" MDO forms and snap ties, but we put the ICF panels on the inside form only. Then buttoned up the outside panel and pumped in the concrete. The end result was a concrete exterior wall (easy to seal), and 2" of foam and screw strips on the inside.
The inside MDO panels came off clean as new and the exterior panels were scraped clean and re-used. Did about 20 feet of wall at a time, footing first and then the wall, marching the panels around the perimeter and removing old wall as we went. Only had to jack up the house in 20 foot sections (about 1/8" at a time).
End result is a fantastic dry basement with sheetrock on the walls. It's been 20 years now and not a single problem. 55 yards of concrete, 2000 lb of #4 rebar, and roughly half the needed ICF for a complete wall.

[SI-lgvp]

I built my home with Zip insulated walls, Zip roof deck, Advantech flooring. I also used Aero Barrier for air sealing. Added extra earthquake tie downs. I feel I have the best built to last home in my community.

[Texas]

Regarding termites and ICF or any other construction material. Being in the pest control industry in Texas for the past 19 years we learned years ago about Bora-Care products. We used it exclusively on new construction builds due to its long term performance and being a safe natural product as well. Once the treated surface is enclosed and protected from UV light you have a lifetime protection basically. For ICF spray exterior walls two feet up from grade and spray foundation coating surfaces well. As added protection in ICF spray rafter over wall and two foot out from wall, including eave material. Since foundations are exposed retreat that area again per label. Great solve for issue. I am surprised manufacturers of the foam block have not mixed in borates in mixture to resolve the issue. This would be a permanent and effective fix.

[monteorchard]

I have built 2 ICF homes, and put gauge steel trusses on them (and metal shingles on top of that). You have to be careful with insulation levels in the attic, but free span trusses means you can dry in the structure without putting up interior walls. I've been very happy with it. But if I ever need to change something on an outside wall, Matt is not wrong about the trouble I'm in. Interior sound levels are still very good, as are utility bills (I'm usually at half of what my friends are with wood frame houses). The other thing Matt does not mention is that bricks go very well on the outside of ICFs.

[mkczekala]

Hi, I’m a representative for a SIPS manufacturer, based in Mexico (2) locations exporting to the US. We are currently building a house in Texas using our SIPS panels. You are absolutely right about OSB plywood sheathing rotting and why we produce with 3/8” fiber cement! Our panels give a close to finished product inside and out. We produce thicknesses 4”, 6”, 8” & 10” and 4’ x 8’, 10’ & 12’. I believe we offer the very best option of those presented. Thanks for the informative video!

[DrVictoria]

My dad had our family home built out of ICF on Vancouver island about 20 years ago now, it was the first in the area and no builder had done ICF, but he was particular to have it done. Fabulous building.

[AnthonyVanKan]

I am a Registered Designer in New Zealand with 35 Year worth of experience.
I liked your presentation, in that you explain the pros & Cons, you are not just a sponsors salesman. :-)

[crockett]

The 1st type of house you talked about, the concrete/Styrofoam.. The home I lived in during my childhood back in the 80s was made this way. It was in Melbourne, FL I'm not sure who built it but it was supposed to be an experimental design. The walls were very thick and it had built in shutters and a flat concrete roof. Hurricanes couldn't touch it an=d was easy on the electric bill in the summer. On the down side, we had a fire and because the heat was trapped inside the fire couldn't really spread into the house much but it damaged a lot of stuff inside just due to the heat. However the house survived the fire that would have burnt a normal house to the ground. Ours was so very thick walls..

[MichaelHoybook]

We moved into our SIP house over two years ago and we are solar powered off grid as well. We live in Northeast Texas. Our SIP construction contractor was Ferrier Custom Homes out of Ft. Worth and the SIP manufacturer was Fischer SIPs out of Kentucky. We have been very happy with the home but our biggest surprise is how much energy is needed to keep the house cool in the Texas heat versus how little energy is needed to keep it warm in the winter. Our walls are 6.5 inches thick and our roof is 11.25 inches thick. We use individual room mini splits for A/C and a wood burning stove for heat. Thanks for the video.

[apexdhomedesign]

As a General years ago, I went through a manufacturer's training and installed a 12' daylight basement foundation with ICF. Beautiful, solid system. A friend contracted in SIP construction company with fab facility that is now a conventional stud-framed panelizing business. I've designed homes in SIP and ICF, one utilized both systems and it is very efficient.

[captainmorgan]

My family built an ICF house in Fort Worth. About 4000 sq ft 2 levels and basement. Yep, a basement in Texas. I couldn't have been happier with it. We went with 12" walls in the first and second floors and 18" in the basement. A basement in hot climates is incredible. Even if the AC went out it would stay at 65F all year.

[dougmccollum]

Great video! As a Design/Build contractor for the past 18 years in Western Montana I have found that an ICF foundation (Superform ICF), Sips exterior walls (Bigsky R-Control) and R-50 blown in attic insulation is hard to beat. My first personal home was home built like this. Main floor 4000 sqft slab on grade (except for above the basement) and 850 sqft basement. I used hydronic in slab heat hooked up to an old school reliable Slant fin cast iron, NG boiler. Summer utility bills ran 170.00 ish (68°-71° no A/C) and winter right around 230.00 ish per month with T-stat @ 68°. Blower door tests were right on target. Never had any moisture buildup anywhere that I could find.
Myself and two other guys put up a 40x24 Sips shop with 6.5"x12' walls. It took us right at 9 hours to erect, trusses on, roof blocking in, sheath with two rows of titanium underlayment up each eave. Sips are a slick way to build! If you use them for a complicated roof system you can build the roof in sections on the ground with a telehandler and have a crane come in one day and set the roof system (depending on size of the project). It is a way safer way for the workers to build a roof and cost effective too. Depending on the project, as the roof is on the ground you can run electrical in the panels, install sheetrock in the vaults and install part of your roof underlayment too. My ICF salesman is trying to get me to pull the trigger on a full ICF home but haven't taken him up on that yet. I'm kinda biased but I liken a stick frame house to a truck with carburetor verses a truck with direct injection. Like pex vs Innovation, research it and apply it. Whether your a builder or end consumer for most of us 90% of it is all about keeping money in your pocket (or your house standing after a Hurricane).

[sarahcowman]

My wife and I built our dream home in Colorado 3 years ago. Contractor I worked with talked my out of modular and into ICF by comparing it to Lego bricks. Pretty simplistic, but I was sold. 3 years later the overall performance of the home is crazy. My winter propane bill runs about $100 per month in a neighborhood with homes spending 6 to 7 times that. We even have trouble using the fireplace because the radiant heat in the floors keeps the house warm. It's not too shabby in the summer. Due to engineering issues there is one area that has an exterior framed wall and in the really cold or hot periods there is a dramatic difference.