4.42 GPA, 1590 SAT Denied from 16 Colleges?! The Tale of Stanley Zhong

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[SlackrGnius]

This is why the test blind policies of UCs are ridiculous. If they considered his 1590 SAT, guaranteed it would be obvious that he is well above average of UCB/UCLA.

[MarcNewhard]

The tech companies should start their own universities. Recruit students during senior year of high school. They could create a program where you slowly pay off the university debt with each paycheck after you graduate. Then after 5 years of employment with the same company, they wipe the debt clean. It might help level the playing field for college admissions along with the cost of a 4 year degree. At the end of the day, a college campus is still a business. The pandemic showed us what they truly value and education was not at the top of their list.

[ummuser]

I went to a poor urban school, near a very high ranking university. Still, we punched above our weight class because our teachers gave a shit about us. The year before mine, 8 students from that graduating class got accepted to this prestigious university. The year I applied, none got in. Even the kids who also got into other prestigious schools like Princeton. They either decided they had enough kids from our city already, or that we are too much of a financial burden (we'd all need financial aid), or maybe both. Either way, doesn't matter, there's more colleges out there, and like you said, it's not where or what you know. It's who you know.

[emiliomartineziii]

I graduated high school having passed 9 AP classes, all the hardest ones too (Calculus BC, Physics C, and so on). The only test I failed was chemistry. Even with all that I did not even bother applying to anywhere prestigious and just went to the cheapest accredited public university in my region. I am now 21 graduating from UTSA with a 4.0 GPA in electrical engineering and I have no regrets. At one of those Ivy League schools, I would probably only had a 3.16 GPA, would have taken longer to graduate, and would have 100k of medical school levels of debt. Like at UTSA, I only would pay 4k a semester so I graduated with money in the bank from working on the side, something that would of been impossible at an Ivy League school

[ianboard]

Once you are above a certain GPA, other things become important - activities, interests, community service among others. Grades by themselves are necessary but not sufficient.

[kvom]

I graduated in 1966 before AP with 1590 on the SAT and straight As from a private school. I applied to the top 10 engineering schools and was accepted by all of them. Went to Cal Tech to discover that 1) I was below average for my freshman class, and 2) I really didn't want to be a chemical engineer. I transferred to an in-state school, and although there was no computer science majors back then I worked my way through as a programmer while getting an ME degree. No regrets. After that first job college didn't matter at all.

[JStephs]

I graduated from an Ivy League school 50 years ago. There's no way I would get in to my school now.

But then, I met someone while there who'd graduated 50 years before I arrived. He said that he'd been planning on going to Yale, but on the train there, his good friend traveling to my school talked him into going to my school. Instead of going to New Haven CT, he joined his friend and disembarked at my/our school, and just enrolled there, no application, no admissions committee, no resumes, no letters of recommendation, nothing. He just showed up.

Things have certainly changed.

[jeopardy]

The best way to get into a top-tier college is to attend a lower-tier school for two years and get straight A's, then you can get accepted to a top-tier school as a transfer student. That's what I did. I got into DePaul University as a freshman, then I transferred to University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign as a Junior.

[exhaustguy]

We are fortunate in Iowa to have access to two nationally regarded universities without the level of competition you see in the UC systems (or even the flagship state schools like Wisconsin and Illinois). Getting into a flagship state school in a desirable major is a firmer path to success for those students who aren't high flyers (like the one being studied here). Neither of my daughters would have been able to get anything close to a 1590 on the SAT, but both were able to graduate college in two years in desirable majors (Nursing and Engineering). Instead of doing the stressful hamster wheel of AP and Honors classes, they took community college classes instead in 11th and 12th grade. This approach greatly reduced the cost of their education (which I fully funded for both my daughters even though we are a one income household and I am a mid-level engineer).

[AjitMD]

Any average level university has the resources for a smart motivated student to learn Computer Science specialities. Plus there are lot of online resources. Get all the certifications needed. Important to graduate with no debt. There is a whole work besides Computer Science… Engineering, Accounting/Tax, Construction, Healthcare, Insurance, etc. Can even work for yourself.

[erictoulon]

I knew two young men who were good friends and wanted to go to the same college. One only studied and got a higher than 4.0 GPA. The other one had about a 3.5 GPA but heavily participated in sports and other extracurricular activities. The one with the 3.5 GPA was not only accepted in all of the schools but was offered scholarships. The other was not accepted to as many and was also told he should take some time off to mature. When you get to college you encounter a lot of distractions and people who are used to distractions will have a better chance of excelling. Colleges also want people who can multitask many of them become influential and strong supporters of the alumni association.
Students who don’t get into their dream college should look at community colleges in the area of the college they want to go to. Many community colleges are feeders for college’s who usually lose a percentage of their freshman and sophomore students and use the students from the junior college to replenish their student body. I know kids from Hawaii who went to community colleges next to their college of choice to get residency and credits at a more affordable price. They eventually got into the school of choice.

[glasshalffull]

Quite a few of my son’s friends decided to go to small commuter colleges and take care of all the basic course for two years and then apply to a more prestigious university such as UCLA and Berkeley. The kids did well and are doing well now that they have transferred. Not for everyone, but an option. I spoke with several admissions people from different UC schools and they emphasized the perspective that “What can your child bring to our university!” Every kid applying has a 4.35 GPA and almost perfect test scores (Though they allegedly don’t consider them) and so what is special about your kid that would make the university want them as a member of their community. As crazy as it might sound, one school was thrilled to tell us they had accepted a kid that was a beekeeper and another school had accepted a kid that was a blacksmith. After great grades, what will set your kid apart? Is he part of an inner city outreach program. Does she tutor underprivileged kids. Do they do volunteer work at the local hospital or senior center. Did they organize a community cleanup of their favorite park.

[peacehappyb]

So it appears that the applicant's parent's occupation and high school play a HUGE role in getting in despite having good stats.

[buzzardwhiskey]

For crying out loud, it's not rocket science. His grades weren't good enough, and his patents aren't wealthy enough. The whole idea that a bright middle-class kid could get into UC-anything (or anywhere other than The Unversity of Phoenix) worked for about 60 years. That's a good run, but it's done.

[mariejane]

He applied to 18 OK 3000 more to what happens when you apply to a job and there's more competition??

[DavidM]

Not everything in life is answered by a number. There are often any number of other factors, perhaps more subjective, that are part of the key to open the door. I had a guy working in my firm who had a B. Comm. and an MBA and was completely hopeless in the environment for which he was trained. These things don't show up in test scores.

[racool]

I was the exact same way. Great Test scores and grades are the bare minimum for the good schools

[homejournalist]

Just a note: UMD (University of Maryland @ College Park) does consider your desired major for what they call limited enrollment programs (those programs where they have a set amount of space available). So you can apply for those LEPs ( Engineering, Business, Nursing, Computer Science, plus about 7 others), get rejected for your chosen program, and STILL gain admission as "General Studies" if you have an otherwise good to great application. You then can apply to your chosen program after your first semester.

[venturabay]

You can get into a good UC by just Acing out a junior college...I just got A's at Ventura College and got into UCSB as a transfer student...good luck to all

[anonreviews]

This is an excellent video with really good analysis. The grade inflation at this Bay Area school is absolutely bonkers.

I do a little college counseling related work in midwest so I have some thoughts on admissions for UW Madison. A few things ... one - the AO at UW is certainly targeting to keep CS interested students at a certain level for incoming freshman. The days of pretending all L&S students there are looked at the same in admissions are probably numbered.. Two - acceptance rate they publish are totally irrelavent if you are OOS or applying to one of their popular programs/majors. I live in a neighboring state, and many urban and suburban students here talk about UW with very high regard and acceptance rates are low at Minneapolis and Chicago area schools. Three - CA is a top 5 state for applications to UW Madison. They require a "Why UW" essay and I think that really matters in this particular admissions office. They have no shortage of applications from high stat CS interested students from the CA and the bay area. The kid that wrote the essay about very SPECIFIC things they imagine doing on this particular campus might win over the kid who applied to too many schools, wrote a very generic essay that could apply to any number of schools. Because that kid isn't likely to attend anyway. And were they wrong? This kid turned down UT Austin and UMD, both fantastic competitive OOS options. No way Stanley would have stepped foot on a campus as "lowly" as UW Madison. Seems like he didn't make the best list for himself.

I do feel badly for CA students in this regard. Admissions for public schools in CA is bonkers. Though he certainly could have had an affordable in state option if he didn't. For sure it pays to have a dad going to bat for you. But that's how real life works. Connections matter. But for a student applying from the Bay Area to this particular list of pretty REACHY schools, this doesn't seem like an unlikely result. A friend's kid is dropping 80-90k a year for an east coast private because of bay area admissions and making a not great list.

I assume this student would and could be full pay everywhere. But middle and upper middle class families need the ability to compare financial offers. The ED process definitely benefits the most wealthy.