Is the Quran man made?

Channel shout-outs
TheMaskedArab makes videos on the quran and islamic history in both English and Arabic

interfaithless is a group of exmuslims have gone public and have been brave to share their stories of being sent to Islamic school,suicidal,gay,questioning their faith and being disowned by their families.

[TheMaskedArab]

It's astonishing to see how people either deliberately dumb down and start accusing others of "selective hearing" when they have selective understanding, or how people can't understand a simple point.
If I was to tell you today that Neil Armstrong said these famous words as he stepped on to the moon's surface:
*_"That's one small step for man, but one giant leap for mankind"_*
Two days later, I say these words were:
*_"That's one small step for a human, but one giant leap for humanity"_*
It's recounting what was said. The content of the statements are not contradicting, but it is a contradiction of quotation. He said either the first, the second, or neither. He can't have said both those sentences as he stepped onto the moon.

[StillSmilingSkeptic]

Not only is the phone book thicker than the Qu'ran, the information in it is 100% verifiable.

[jahangirahmed]

I'm a Muslim and I will admit that this guy is probably one of the most annoying people to have a discussion with. His tone and manner comes across as arrogant and patronising. He's also very disrespectful no matter how many times he says he's respectful. I was getting frustrated and annoyed just listening to him and I'm surprised how the rationalizer was able to keep his cool for so long. Probably the worst performance I've seen from a Muslim in a debate. Absolutely terrible.

[Miso_Hornie]

Islamic apologists have double standards, are random, and inconsistent. This was so boring and frustrating that I just had to stop.

[dna]

As usual this muslim apologist is absolutely maddening

[SpookyFan]

Topic: Is the Koran man-made?

TLDW of the first hour:
Muslim: Lots of people memorise the Koran, but not other books, so it must be special.
Atheist: Lots of people can achieve memorisation feats e.g. phone book, pi, foreign songs. Cultural imperatives to memorise a book do not make a book special.
Muslim: Show me 10 people who can memorise a similar book. It's an objective test.
Atheist: People have memorised the bible. The test doesn't prove anything about the origin of the Koran.
Muslim: I'm not willing to accept that bible claim. Show me such people.
Atheist: Will do.
The problems: The muslim doesn't recognise that memorisation of the Koran isn't special nor does it indicate anything about the origin of the book. The atheist's acceptance of the challenge is open to nitpicking over bible version, the extent to which the 10 people were tested, and more. Regardless of the result of challenge, neither the atheist nor the muslim will have proved anything about the origin of the Koran.

TLDW of the second hour:
Atheist: Koran reports of quotes aren't word for word identical.
Muslim: If the words are different, but the meaning is the same, what's the contradiction?
The problem: Neither person identifies early on and clearly enough for the other person that they are talking about different things i.e. incorrect quotes versus contradictions; or neither person understood the difference; or one person was being an obscurant by deliberately misinterpreting the other's point. The atheist eventually identifies the problem, but the muslim doesn't seem to understand it.

TLDW of the third hour:
The first 20 minutes are the same as the second hour.
[I tuned out from boredom at the slow progress, thus losing the second 20 minutes.]
Muslim: You're not fluent in Arabic.
Atheist: I'm fluent enough to recognise inconsistencies.
[I tuned out again. Based on  the first 140 minutes, I doubt either side made a significant point that the other side accepted.]
The problem: Attention spans are...

[evilmiera]

Sorry Pete, I don't think your opponent is actually listening to what you're saying.

[cheekynandos]

Does anyone else feel like pulling their hair out listening to this argument about how recitability proves divinity?

[amitguptar]

Debating this muslim guy reminds me of a saying: Never respectfully argue with a respectful idiot. He will respectfully bring you down to his respected level and respectfully beat you with experience.

[IMadeOfClay]

"I think the Qur'an is not man made because..."
"I think the Qur'an is man made because..."
What does this guy want? What's so difficult about what Rationalizer is asking? This guy is unbelievable.

[wwickeddogg]

I've come up with an objective test, why won't you just agree to take my test? Yes my test takes years, but it is objective so why won't you agree to take it? Yes my test takes years and doesn't prove anything, but it is objective so why won't you agree to take it? Yes there is not reason to take my test for years which proves nothing, but why won't you agree to take it?

See you come up with every excuse in the book not to take my test when I would immediately take this test if I were you.

[nitelite]

Claiming TR cannot understand Arabic is the most stupid argument ever. This is meant to be a perfect book from a perfect god. And he delivers his message in a book that most of the world don't understand. And we are expected to believe this book is not man-made?

[Mechristopheles]

Pete, if I understand this right, Pete, the objective challenge is that the Rationaliser, Pete, must accept that people can memorise the Koran, Pete. But that people memorise anything else, Pete, is dismissed because it's not the Koran, Pete.

Pete, this is an object test, do you agree, Pete? No, nothing you said matters but you do agree this is an objective test, Pete.

[FlyingSpaghettiMonster]

Please come back ! (Rationalizer not the end of days, for absolute clarity)

[derment]

You can't compare the Qur'an with books like Moby Dick or a telephone directory. One is a long rhyming poem that is recited in a melodic fashion which makes it much easier to learn. Other religious books like the Gita also in poetic form is memorised by thousands of people. In Islamic society verses from the Qur'an are recited in the baby's ear at the time of birth and they hear Qur'an recitation almost every day. They (boys only) are sent to Madrasas where the verses are practically beaten into them and they learn it by rote (repetition). Hardly what you would call a natural divine process.

[wimsweden]

Addressing the "mud" vs. "clay" red herring (there is a difference by the way): If a god claims that at 3:00 AM he said "phone" and somehwere else claims that at 3:00 AM he said "telephone", then the god is contradicting himself because either he said "phone" or "telephone". It can't be both. It doesn't matter whether there is a difference in meaning.

[captaindisguise]

@03:04:34"Where does it mention humans beings?" Is this guy serious? Who else is the verse referring to? Frogs?

This is a very incompetent man, which is only made worse by the fact that he is intellectually dishonest. Feel bad that Rash had to sit through it. 

[jwilliamquest]

Orthodox Jews memorize the Torah. The tradition of memorizing sacred books long predates Islam.

[showme]

If we forbade shabir the use of the word "respect" or any of its variants, we could have cut the exchange down to an hour.

[KalimaShaktide]

This is really getting painful to listen to. You can t argue with Muslims or Creationists...
EDIT: word salad, word salad, word salad...respectfully pete blablabla...word salad. What is the criteria? word salad word salad, let me finish, word salad, respectfully...word salad