Watkins Glen HPDE Crash BMW E30 318is s52

Was having a great session on the first session of a 2 day event. 30 minutes into the session I lost brakes into turn 8. The instructor and myself were able to walk away. Now comes the long process of building a new e30.

BMW e30. s52 w/ Vac Stage 2 head / Schrick Cams

[VictorPitstop]

My condolences for your loss... I am glad you and the passenger are safe, but I hope you can get another clean E30 someday soon.

[codyeldred]

cars can be replaced. people can not be. awesome to walk away from this.

[silvergen]

As a Porsche racing instructor I'll point out several things I noticed;

1) never try to turn in a situation like this. We have had many rollovers in situations like this where people try to turn and 'ride it out' then the car gets sideways at high speed. Not a good combination.

2) cars (and people) are designed to take frontal impacts better than side or partial frontal impacts. Go straight off.

3) It looks like he was WAY late on the brake zone.

Now those are my observations as an instructor, here are some general comments.

This looks like an HPDE (high-performance drivers education) event which usually means that the drivers have varying levels of track experience from complete Rookies to professionals (notice the point over cab pass signal and the poor racing line of the other drivers). This driver's racing abilities appear to be solid and in line with that of an amateur but his decision-making at a time of crisis is that of a rookie and needs improvement. People that say there wasn't much time are right but for professional or amateur racers the amount of time he had would have been plenty to assess and choose a safer path off.

Those are things that can all be improved and are not character flaws. I'm sorry you had to learn this lesson in such an expensive way, glad you are ok. Pilots have a saying about landings that I've shifted into driving 'any crash you can walk away from was a just fine'.

The one thing that BLEW MY MIND was the fact that the INSTRUCTOR who was presumably the passenger here put his damn feet on the dash and then braced himself with his hands. NOW THAT is poor decision making and a great way to send your knees through your chest. I should also note that the skill level of the instructors at HPDE events also varies greatly.

[phlthyvision]

Good that no one was hurt. The brakes locked up. You didnt get the tires rolling again after the initial lockup. Then the steering got continuously turned more as the road surface was ending. Get the car stopped first next time. You did hit the brakes in time and had room to sort it out. Sorry you had to learn a hard lesson.

[Rurik_JustCruzn]

glad you made. If you do decide to build another e30, I'd definitely recommend a role cage.

[roadiethirteen]

Props for posting. Yes, details about the brake issue would be useful to learn from this, if possible. Looks like there was still braking going on in the front as the car does not turn whilst still on the tarmac. Thanks.

[Zguy]

The problem started with the other driver who points by the camera car but doesn't really lift.  This makes the driver feel like he has to pass, but is unable to do so without overrunning the brake zone.  If you are pointing someone by, please lift so they can make the pass easily before the end of the straight, especially low powered cars.

[danielescuderi]

This is not a brake failure...but a very bad use of clutch on high speed. I Hope driver and Co. are safely...

[BloomingtonFPV]

That sucks. Glad you were able to walk away.

[Soffex]

Did the brakes actually loose pressure? Seems to me like he just panicked when the rear end got light from braking (which happens). Not sure why he held the clutch in afterwards. Then trying to turn the wheel further right while going off track making the understeer even worse. I'm glad you were able to walk away

[gfunkenator]

Would it have helped to engage the handbrake to try and spin the car clockwise to stay on the tarmac a little longer and then into the runoff? This is just a guess as in simracing when the car is understeering like that and I need the car to turn I use the handbrake.

[BMWeix]

Wow! Sorry for your loss, scary how fast things can go wrong. Glad you guys walked out, not stretchered out.

[michaelw]

Man that’s rough. As the driver of a car that’s faster than most through corners and slower than most on straights, I’m used to getting point bys with the person I’m passing not lifting enough to allow me to move back over before turn in. Gotta pull your braking point back a bit to hit your apex.

[marcaltorrent]

This is why I prefer e36, in my opinion it's safer and the frame it's better in a lot of situations.

[YannicksAdventures]

Glad you walked away. I also have an e30 with an s52 swap. Can you try and find out what caused this?

[noturavgm]

Glad you guys got out of there in one piece. What was the failure mode of the brake system? Looks like you had brakes when you first got on em.

[ethownzbh]

It was a bad impact for sure, but didn't look bad enough, from the inside at least, to crumple a car like that. Didn't realize the structural rigidity of e30s is that horrendous...

[zanick]

what was the cause of the brake failure?

[kanggoo]

it didnt even look like such a fast crash but wow the car bent like shit

[KhanofGames]

That sound sounds amazing or sounded amazaing for a 4 cylinder. What exhaust was on it or which modifications you did use?