Can We Live Without Religion? - Alex O'Connor

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00:00 Introduction
00:38 From Vegan to Meat Eater
08:24 Animal Welfare Issues
13:08 Is Veganism Sustainable?
14:27 Veganism as a Religion
19:16 Sponsor Message: Galaxy Lamps
20:26 Konstantin is More Powerful than Liz Truss?
32:04 What Happens When Religion is Removed from Society?
39:00 The New Atheism Movement
44:07 Younger Generations’ Lack of Spirituality
47:24 Sponsor Message: GiveSendGo
48:41 The Benefits of a Life of Meaning
57:37 Values & Desires

[triggerpod]

CHAPTERS👇
00:00 Introduction
00:38 From Vegan to Meat Eater
08:24 Animal Welfare Issues
13:08 Is Veganism Sustainable?
14:27 Veganism as a Religion
19:16 Sponsor Message: Galaxy Lamps
20:26 Konstantin is More Powerful than Liz Truss?
32:04 What Happens When Religion is Removed from Society?
39:00 The New Atheism Movement
44:07 Younger Generations’ Lack of Spirituality
47:24 Sponsor Message: GiveSendGo
48:41 The Benefits of a Life of Meaning
57:37 Values & Desires
1:05:02 What's the One Thing We're Not Talking About?

[jessaabraham]

The best thing about Alex is the he is not rushing to make his point. He absorbs the persons point who is sitting in front of him then responds not react. Such a pleasure listening to his debates channel and podcast. Hope he remains humble throughout his life.

[studiocorax]

Word of advice, if you don’t want to try your ideas using a philosophical analysis, don’t invite a philosopher.

[Bronco]

I refuse to believe in things that arent true, just becuase it makes me feel good.

[SLAM]

Alex was making some genuine points, I didn't find Konstantin etc... genuinely willing to engage with Alex's points but rather more interested in not challenging their own beliefs

[Yonada]

Konstantin sounds annoyed a lot here. And when Alex tries to rephrase or explain how he gets to an argument, Konstantin just talks over him and tells sort of stubbornly that he's wrong. Look at his bodylanguage, for example at around 58:45.

Konstantin is also repeatedly effectively saying "it's OK when we do it".

Quite frankly, it sounds like Konstantin has some unspoken beef with Alex (or perhaps the atheists Alex represents in Konstantin's mind) that gets projected throughout this interview. It feels uncharacteristically hostile. Not to mention how Francis just mostly sits there. He should have taken a bit more charge of the interview.

[sungod]

I was getting a bit frustrated with Konstantin refusing to engage with the more abstract/intellectual aspects of what Alex is saying. It’s probably because of Alex’s background in philosophy, but he frequently tries to get the other person to be more rigorous/precise/formal in defining the fundamental substructure of their beliefs, and the other person usually simply refuses. That’s exactly what happened here. Konstantin is hiding behind imprecision in his speech to avoid trying to define things rigorously, because then his position would start to seem a bit shaky. He was being very condescending and patronizing towards Alex near the end, despite the fact that he was the one relying on vague amorphous ideas and expressing them in a superficial way. It’s totally possible to rigorously and precise understand things in the abstract, without actually being able to intuitively “feel” what a certain experience is like. But just because you can’t invoke that feeling in another person doesn’t mean you can’t communicate what the abstract definition is.

[dohpamne]

As someone who is a fan of Alex and hasn't listened to much of Konstantin... The air of complete self-assurance is usually a pretty big red flag for someone who doesn't think too deeply about things. Konstantin seems ready to dismiss Alex's statements as "obviously wrong" when he clearly didn't even understand yet what Alex was saying.

The vegan/AI religion question was a perfect example. "Well, veganism is totally like a religion because of the stuff it makes people do, but AI doomers aren't like a religion because the stuff they do is rational." Essentially just begging the question by saying "X is a religion because they're wrong" without even giving any indication of being aware how silly that sounds to someone who hasn't already made his same assumptions.

[JesseDriftwood]

Konstantin’s views on meaning sound a lot like a romantic comedy’s view on love. There is some true soulmate out there for you that when you one day discover, you’ll know deep down in your heart of hearts.

This isn’t to say that some people don’t have experiences like this in love or meaning, but painting in these broad strokes feels unhelpful at best, and something worse at worst.

[TomJudson]

Konstantin sure is comfortable speaking for other groups, whether vegans or religious people or climate activists or the woke community (whatever the hell that is): “No, Alex, what THEY mean is…” etc., etc. I fit into a couple of those categories and, based on his generalizations, he has no clue about what I think. “We all feel it (the spirits within us).” Jesus, man, speak for yourself! Such an immodest thinker!

[weaq]

Konstantin's argument: when I say something, it's measured and rational; when others say something it's loony.

[MegaBird]

normally like triggernometry but thought Konstantin came across very condescending and arrogant here, especially in the section talking about meaning and purpose. It felt as if he thought he was the authority on the subject when Alex has clearly thought about the issues more deeply and Konstantin was consistently misunderstanding what Alex's point was. He relied on his feelings about the subject rather than any rational argument.

[punejemja]

I feel there is tension between Alex and Konstatin, and frankly, I am with Alex here. Konstatin has an air of about him, whereas Alex is far more humble with his opinions.

[drew-kmpu]

You can see how a reactionary mind works by watching Konstantin react to Alex's points. He has a very clear emotional and physical reaction initially (shaking his head) because what Alex is saying FEELS wrong to him. Then he pauses, thinks and uses logic. When emotion precedes logic, you engage in motivated reasoning and work backwards from your conclusion. Logic is used to justify the opinion rather than shape it.

[BerndWechner]

On the whole I've enjoyed triggernometry. But Konstantin is so visibly losing his curiosity and turning to preaching. Adamantly insisting there's one thing that binds all people, call it god or whatever, an adamant position on premarital sex, an adamant position on meaning being found inside yourself. None of the positions are bad, but the mood is one of overly adamant proselytism and ramming it down their guest's throat who is dancing around them as gently as he can.

Disappointing and triggernometry seems to be morphing into preachynometry over time.

[ripmadonna]

54:15

The way Alex is genuinely trying to take Konstantin seriously, while Konstantin is so unabashedly sure of himself and unwilling to listen has me ROLLING

[vernerkole]

This is my favourite episode in a long time. It feels so fresh and real compared to the usual woke is stupid stuff. Not that I disagree with that; It just gets tired and repetitive. This one seemed like a real conversation that just happened to be caught on camera. I loved it. More of this please.

[derekbaxter]

Wow, Konstantin dominated this interview barely allowing Francis into the discussion and negating most ideas Alex presented. Was this jealously? It was definitely ungenerous. His constant quick negations, "NO", as an ongoing response to Alex was condescending and more than a little arrogant - unnecessarily rude. I've not seen him use a tone quite like this. Didn't enjoy it. Alex is such an impressive thinker and did very well at respectfully participating despite Konstantin's petty rivalry.

[vargonian]

Alex holding his tongue while Konstantin advertises his cognitive biases is a great demonstration of self-control. “The people outside my tribe have bad reasons for their beliefs, but my tribes’ reasons are good. And if someone has good reasons then they aren’t part of the other tribe.”

[vira]

Konstantin's dissonance was visible. He tied himself in knots when confronted with someone like Alex who is internally coherent and consistent. He didn't really have an argument when it came to refuting what Alex was saying about veganism or climate change. Konstantin was just trying to protect his brand.