Magyar Origins | DNA - Geneticist Razib Khan

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In this episode I am joined by geneticist Razib Khan as we dive into the genetic history and origins of the Magyars.

We begin by reflecting on what comes to our mind when we think of the Nomad Confederacy that terrorized Europe in the Early Middle Ages. We see a transformation as these Steppe "barbarians" become a part of the very heart of medieval Europe as they become Christianized.

But although they changed in many ways to become similar to their medieval Christian neighbors as Razib points out in an article titled "Hungarians as the ghost of the Magyar confederacy" they always remained European outsiders, as speakers of a language whose closest relatives are found in Siberia, a cultural mystery whose origins and affinity were only recently clarified by science.

We discuss historiography and the place that the Magyars have within history itself while also noting how our views have changed over time and why.

Lastly we see the birth of Modern Hungary, the expansion of the Ottoman Empire and the eventual fading away of the Magyars who chose to live and die by the sword.

What we learn as our guest points out is that the cultural legacy of the Magyars far outweighs their genetic impact and Hungary and the Hungarian people would not be the same today without the history and story of the Magyars.

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[studyofantiquityandthemidd]

What are your thoughts about the origins of the Magyars? SUPPORT the Barksdale Family and History Channel BELOW!

[leonardlerario]

Keep Fighting Nick and thank you for sharing your love of Historical Knowledge with all of us .

[csikimesike]

I am Székely (Secler), with a strong hungarian identity from Transylvania - now part of Romania. We have the same cultural heritage with Hungarians from Hungary, we speak hungarian, but we have slightly different look and diffrent approach of life. I would grateful if you could bring informations about our origins too.

[VicaCica]

From the publication: The genetic origin of Huns, Avars, and conquering Hungarians

Huns, Avars, and conquering Hungarians were migration-period nomadic tribal confederations that arrived in three successive waves in the Carpathian Basin between the 5th and 9th centuries. Based on the historical data, each of these groups are thought to have arrived from Asia, although their exact origin and relation to other ancient and modern populations have been debated. Recently, hundreds of ancient genomes were analyzed from Central Asia, Mongolia, and China, from which we aimed to identify putative source populations for the above-mentioned groups. In this study, we have sequenced 9 Hun, 143 Avar, and 113 Hungarian conquest period samples and identified three core populations, representing immigrants from each period with no recent European ancestry. Our results reveal that this "immigrant core" of both Huns and Avars likely originated in present day Mongolia, and their origin can be traced back to Xiongnus (Asian Huns), as suggested by several historians. On the other hand, the "immigrant core" of the conquering Hungarians derived from an earlier admixture of Mansis, early Sarmatians, and descendants of late Xiongnus. We have also shown that a common "proto-Ugric" gene pool appeared in the Bronze Age from the admixture of Mezhovskaya and Nganasan people, supporting genetic and linguistic data. In addition, we detected shared Hun-related ancestry in numerous Avar and Hungarian conquest period genetic outliers, indicating a genetic link between these successive nomadic groups. Aside from the immigrant core groups, we identified that the majority of the individuals from each period were local residents harboring "native European" ancestry.

[dragonstonefirechief]

Get well Nick. Thinking about you. Thank you for everything you have created.

[balzug]

One thing to add, the Hungarians were semi-nomadic people. So, when they moved to and settled down in the Carpathian Basin, their people consisted of nomad horsemen but also of people who were familiar with agriculture. The Hungarians were not only fighting horsemen. The word Magyar refers to one of their tribes (Megyer) which became superior. The Asian bloodline is diluted but still present as is the oriental wildness.

[borbalaequestrian]

I have Magyar on my maternal side. In fact my mother's cousin was kept in the hospital an extra day back in the 1930's because she had a "Mongolian spot" on her lower back. The nurse thought she had been bruised by her mother until the doctor asker my great aunt if she was Hungarian since it was a mostly Hungarian area in the city at the time. Then the doctor told the nurse what it was and they released them.

[nathanruben]

Hungary is currently observer in Turkic States Coalition. Turkic states are forming EU like structure with army... They have natural resources, population, technology. I believe they will be a great power soon.

[xvelnino]

Get well! Thank you for doing a video on the Magyars. I am Magyar myself, so I am very interested in the topic. One thing I'd like to add, and it is based on my observation living in Hungary. My documented ancestry is from Germany, Poland and Slovakia, but regarding the ancient Magyar DNA; if you were to take a stroll in the town my parents are from you would be surprised how much a certain percentage of people look like the Sami and Mansi. When I first looked at pictures of these Uralic peoples it was like I am looking at my father's family photo album. My theory is that the average Magyar, was genetically related, and some still are (varies by settlement) to the Uralic ancestors in a larger percentage. The nobility/leadership however were Huns. Nevertheless, we Magyars know, that more than our ethnicity, it is our language that binds us together and gives us our identity. Thank you for reading.

[greenfireball]

Hope to see you back soon Nick! Thanks for all the vids. Get well soon!!

[agotaruzsa]

A few questions
1. Why don’t you ask Hungarian historians?
2. Onogur means 10 tribes 7+3 tribes
But there are so many new understanding based on recent archeology and genetics

[oxvendivil]

Hope he gets well, as an East Asian, Hungarians are like a very distant relative or a group that preserved an Asian language but whose lineage has been heavily diluted by the Europeans they dominated just like modern day Turks.

[AlexAlex-zvfc]

I visited Turkey. The cuisine of Anatolia (inner Turkey) is very similar to Hungarian cuisine.

[papazataklaattiranimam]

The conquest proper of Hungary is dated at the end of the ninth century, in 896, when the seven Hungarian tribes (Nyék, Megyer, Kirt Gyarmat, Jenó, Tarján, Kér, and Keszi) and the three Kabar tribes, led by Prince Árpád, gradually filled up the Carpathian basin, except for the zones of beechwood and the coniferous forests. The "conquering Hun garians" are equivalent to the upper circle of the people (with rich furniture); some of them spoke two languages: Onogur-Turk and Ugrian-Hungarian.

[thumbstruck]

Stay strong. History: we get a better idea where we're going when we know where we've been.

[ag]

Despite my last name, ( from my Spanish husband) both of my parents were Hungarian. My father, Gabriel Gyozo from Sopron, and my mother, Ujhelyi Zsuzsanna, from Dunabogdany. My understanding is that there are 2 major theories - the northern taiga ( Siberia) region - Finno- Ugric - Uralic. And the steppe area around the Black and Caspian Seas... Scythians, Huns, Avars etc. The R1a haplogroup is dominant and there is a definite Eurasian connection, but in the past 1000 - 800 years there has been much admixture with mostly Slavic and Germanic people. The language, folk art and music is unique and shows Asian roots.

[LorenzoGiannetti]

Nick, don't you dare not coming back swiftly sharing your love for history with all of us.
Get well and fully recover.

[papazataklaattiranimam]

The Hungarian language is the most important source for reconstructing the West Old Turkic language spoken west of the Ural in the 5th-12th centuries. The study by Arpad Berta and Andras Rona-Tas deals with the etymology of about 500 Hungarian words which are or may be of Old Turkic, in some cases of Middle Turkic origin. The Hungarian-Turkic contacts began in the 5th century and lasted a long period. The earliest loanwords were copied from a Western Old Turkic idiom; the latest loanwords were borrowed from the language of the Cumans who settled down in Hungary in the first half of 13th century. The authors excluded the Ottoman words from the corpus. In all cases the authors give the etymology of the Turkic word, the reconstructed copied form, the form as adapted by the Hungarian language and the history of the word. The detailed introduction focuses on the former research, the historical setting and the technical framework. In the concluding chapters the authors reconstruct the Ancient Hungarian language at the time of the Turkic-Hungarian contacts and outline the structure of the West Old Turkic language. A bibliography and several indices help the reader to use the book.

West Old Turkic: Turkic Loanwords in Hungarian, László Károly András Róna-Tas, Árpád Berta, László Károly

[gymnosophist]

Hope you bounce back soon Nick! As for Mr Khan, I would like to know how you respond to recent research (for example by Neparázcki and Török) which shows that the “Conqueror” class Magyars are related directly to the Huns and the Scythians.

[kovako]

Ok, as a hungarian a few new developments. They examined the remainings of a few hundred people from the time of the hungarian conquest. Both from the elite, and from the common people. The results show, 50% ugric, 15% hun, and 33% sarmata (persian) dna ancestry.

With all respect, the hypothesis about the hungarian conquerors disspearearing is shaky at best for multiple reasons. He mentions Hungary had several wars between the mongol and ottoman invasion (1241-1526), that weared them off, the problem with this, is that this era was the perhaps most successfull time (with a short oligarchical period). Steady rise of the population (except for the plague), and the wars were mostly conquests, or successfull defensive battles from mongols, chezhs, ottomans. The Mohacs battle was a brutal defeat indeed, and a significant loss of the nobility, but to put it into context, the estimated loss was about 25 000 people (most of them common soldiers) while the population was more than 4 million. You have to know, a large portion of the elites at the time of the battle were either in Transsylvania, or sided with the Habsburg king (the legitimacy was in dispute).

As a matter of fact, my lineage on my maternal side is dated back to the Mongol invasion in Transylvania and they were hungarian (a few documents shows this), and im not the only one remained, there are hundreds of people living today from that lineage.

According to the archeological data (artifacts, hystorical descriptions, graves) the counquering hungarian tribes outnumbered the people that already lived here, 3-4 times. Now off course hungarians mixed with number of other people, the neigbouring ones obviously, and other asian tribes (like Jász, Kun), we know sachson, schwab people were invited in great numbers from the 12 century. Royal and many noble families consciously mingled with other european royal, and noble families.

However the most critical reason for the change in our dna comes with the ottoman invasion. From 1526 the 4, 2 million population (estimated to be 80% hungarian) fell to roughly 2 million in 1687, when the ottomans left the country. 150 years of constant war was, what weared us down an literally halfed the hungarian population. The habsurgs started a repopulation mostly from slavic, romanian and german origin. 50 years later, the population of Hungary reached the 4 million again, but the majority of the people were from a different ancestry, language.