Eucharist and Sacrifice

This video addresses the question of eucharist and sacrifice as has been a consistent debate between Roman Catholics and Protestants. I show that there is an appropriate way to conceive of this in a Lutheran theological context.

[Nonz.M]

The Mass is a sacrifice. Not a propitiatory sacrifice of Christ that the priest offers up to God on behalf of the people, but it's Christ's once for all sacrifice for us on Calvary made present for the forgiveness of sins of those who partake worthily.

[Nonz.M]

Rome has corrected their error on saying they're re-sacrificing Christ, but they still very much believe that the Mass is a propitiatory sacrifice that satisfies God's wrath.
"If any one saith, that the sacrifice of the mass is only a sacrifice of praise and of thanksgiving; or, that it is a bare commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross, but not a propitiatory sacrifice; or, that it profits him only who receives; and that it ought not to be offered for the living and the dead for sins, pains, satisfactions, and other necessities; let him be anathema."

[createclass]

Anglican theologian E.L Maschall puts it well in his book Corpus Christi when he says that the sacrifice of the Eucharist is the 'whole Christ offering the whole Christ.' The body of Christ, which includes both Christ and His Church (which is His body), offers up the once for all sacrifice on cavalry, the sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving, and offering up our bodies as holy living sacrifices. This is offered up by 'the whole Christ, ' which mysteriously includes him as our great High Priest, and also His Church. There is one sacrifice... and we are joined to it in the Sacrament of the Altar.

[SibleySteve]

Hebrews 13 discusses the sacrifice of our praise and thanksgiving and brotherly love. Being thankful for Christ In prayer and song (verbal praise) and making peace with each other in a service of thanks seems like a moment of theosis to me, so for those of us interested in theosis it seems like Communion should be the first place to look?

[bbharat]

Dr.Cooper if possible could you please tell the team at ALTS seminary to put the list of books on the website they refer to in the programs so that who cant join the programs can atleast read from the books in their free time .Thank you

[roccopanepinto]

I have often spoken to Roman Catholics about Transsubstantiation and their understanding of the "Messopfer" (I'm in Germany-- translated: "SACRIFICE of the Mass"). The answer I receive from doctrinally informed Catholics is that they are not re-sacrificing Jesus Christ, but rather performing a continuation of the sacrifice of Jesus. Correct? This explanation is just a futile attempt to get around the many "once and for all" references to Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, mainly found in the book of Hebrews. I will agree, that Jesus' sacrifice is timeless and ever effective, however Jesus said "do this in remembrance of Me". For instance we celebrate people's birthday as a rememberance of someone's birth -- it is not a continuation of the birth event! On the cross, at the completion of His sacrifice Jesus also said: "It is finished" (not: "to be continued!"). His sacrifice was once and for all -- and forever effective!
Here in Germany I have been present at "Fronleichnam" (Corpus Christi Day) processions where the priest lifts up the host used in communion and people fall down to worship it! I find that to be very disturbing and idolatrous behavior!

[ts-js]

I think Catholic dogma on the Mass is still misconstrued a bit:
1. There is One Sacrifice of Our Lord
2. The Priest offering the Sacrifice of the Cross is Our Lord himself. He is both the Priest and the Lamb.
3. The Mass is the One and Only Sacrifice Made Present and Offered anew by Our Lord to the Father. The priest only acts in Persona Christi
4. As it is the same propitiatory Sacrifice, the Mass is indeed offered for the remission of Sins
5. Communion as a Sacrament is indeed us receiving the Graces from God, as fruits of the one Sacrifice
6. The faithful including the priest associate themselves to this sacrifice
This is the whole meaning of the Mass being called the 'Qurbana', the Sacrifice, from the very early days. So, first of all, I don't think we are that far away and indeed, the reformation is probably the reason for the Church to have precise its teachings to fight abuse. What makes us close is the centrality of the Cross. Secondly, one would wish the 2 parties would have the fortitude to carry on arguing rather than splitting during the reformation. it is so worth more than ever to get close to each other and make the effort of absolute precision of terms and meanings. Thank you for giving it your best and relentless effort

[NomosCharis]

Not certain that it can’t be both a sacrament received and a sacrifice offered. Not the priest offering it, but Christ offering himself by the Spirit through the congregation. He intercedes for us continuously on the basis of his once for all sacrifice.

[joshuaorourke]

What video series so this part of? Would like to see it in context.

[SlovakLutheranMonarchist]

I found this in Didache:
"And on the Days of the Lord, assembling together, break the bread and do Eucharist, confessing aforetimes sins of yours, so that the SACRIFICE of yours might be pure."
(Didache 14:1)

This would be an example of Early Church speaking in similar fashion to Catholics and Lutherans, unlike the Radical Reformers and Memorialists.

[justfromcatholic]

Contrary to what Dr. Cooper said in the video, Catholics do NOT re-sacrifice Christ in every Mass but His single sacrifice is made present in every Mass.

In human time and space dimensions Christ Sacrifice took place once for all on the cross..But Rev. 13::8 refers Christ as the Lamb slain before/from the foundation of the world. The Greek verb "slain" is in Greek passive perfect tense. Unlike that of English Greek perfect tense indicates the action described by the verb (to be slain) was completed in the past (before foundation or creation of the world) with continuing result to the present. For comparison the phrase "it is written", referring to Scripture, is also in Greek passive perfect tense. Scripture was completely written in the past and remains written ever since. Whenever you buy a new Bible in any language, Scripture is REPRINTED but it is NOT REWRITTEN.

From what Christ told Mary Magdalene after His resurrection we know that He did not ascend to God the Father (who is) in heaven after He died on the cross (John 20:17). This meant He did not offer Himself in heavenly sanctuary (Hebrews 8:5, 9: 11) after crucifixion. The reason is: He already did it before the foundation of the world after being slain (Rev. 13:8). Heb. 9:26 even says (ESV) "
for then he [Christ] would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world [NOT SINCE CRUCIFIXION]."

The above should explain why Catholics believe His Sacrifice on the cross can be made present in every Mass and that is why we have priests and altar. Heb. 13:10 says "we have an altar" - the Greek word "we" is first person plural that includes the person who wrote Hebrews. Catholic churches have crucifixes, not empty crosses as in Protestant churches, because Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 1:23 (ESV) "but we preach Christ crucified" - the Greek verb crucified in 1 Cor. 1:23 is also in passive perfect tense

[willkietzman]

Why do people think that Catholics are not Christians? They believe what is attested to in the creeds. I think that they have some issues but to go as far as saying that they are not Christians is just horrible. I guess I do not get it. I'm so disappointed in that and I hope someone can really help with this. Dr. Cooper, your videos have helped so much and I so thankful for them!

[jessebartunek]

Does anyone have a reference to Rome or any "infallible teaching" stating the professed belief of Christ being resacrficed as opposed to being represented?

[magnumsacramentum]

Hebrews 13, 10 "We have an altar from which those who minister at the tabernacle have no right to eat"

In the bible, when there's mention of a sacrifice, there's an altar....and when an altar is mentioned, there's always a sacrifice....

[paar]

If Christ offers himself sacrificially in the re-presentation of his bodily death on the cross in the Mass, which is undisputed among the denominations, then why are the graces that flow from this re-presentation of the sacrifice on the cross not just as accessible to the whole world as in this sacrifice, whether the individual is physically present or not?

[magnumsacramentum]

5:10 "The Church Fathers do speak about the supper as a sacrifice".... can we leave it at that? Or Did anyone reject this view? Did someone say before Luther, "The mass was not a Sacrifice?
Was it heretical in the 1st 1500 years?...

[fixpontt]

the age old question: why would God allow a _"mistake"_ this huge/fundamental in the interpreatation?

[justfromcatholic]

Luther flatly denied that the Mass is sacrifice. In his own words:

Where is it written, that the mass is a sacrifice, or where has Christ taught that one should offer consecrated bread and wine to God? Do you not hear? Christ has sacrificed himself once [Heb. 7:27; 9:25–26]; henceforth he will not be sacrificed by anyone else. He wishes us to remember his sacrifice. Why are you then so bold as to make a sacrifice out of this remembrance? Is it possible that you are so foolish as to act upon your own devices, without any scriptural authority?
Luther: The Misuse of the Mass, Luther’s works, Vol. 36, page 146-147

I have consoled those whose consciences are weak and have instructed them so that they may know and recognize that there is no sacrifice in the New Testament other than the sacrifice of the cross [Heb. 10:10] and the sacrifice of praise [Heb. 13:15] which are mentioned in the Scriptures; so that no one any longer has cause to doubt that the mass is not a sacrifice.
ibid, page 162

[lazaruscomeforth]

Could one say that Christ is actually being offered, not as a propitiation, but as a thanksgiving?

[squizza]

It's a meal celebrating and remembering the sacrifice the Lord made on the cross. The meal is not the sacrifice at all. Unless you say the priest is sacrificing some of his bread and wine for the laity, which is a ridiculous idea. No, the re-enactment is done "in memory of me" (The Lord).