Mover & Gonky React: RAAF Eyes Alternatives to the F-47 🇦🇺

In this episode, Mover and Gonky break down the Royal Australian Air Force’s surprising move to explore 6th generation fighter options outside the American-made F-47. What does this mean for future alliances, tech innovation, and the global fighter landscape?

From Euro 6th-gen designs to performance capability issues — we dive into it with our usual mix of "expert" insight and opinions.

What do you think? Good move for the RAAF and the rest of the world? Should the RAAF commit to Boeing since they currently fly the F/A-18 and E/A-18? Let us know in the comments below!

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Every Monday at 8PM ET, Mover (F-16, F/A-18, T-38, 737, helicopter pilot, author, cop, and wanna be race car driver) and Gonky (F/A-18, T-38, A320, dirt bike racer, author, and awesome dad) discuss everything from aviation to racing to life and anything in between.



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[larrydugan]

Just a historical note. The P51 while designed by North American was built to British requirements. The Americans initially were not interested. The Allison version was not a performer. It was the Brits putting the Merlin engine in that made the aircraft a superstar at which point the US got interested.

[patrickalford]

6th gen fighters are the next step up so naturally Australia should consider all options.
We can’t be overly reliant on just one nation supplying our military.

[MrLunarlander]

I think maybe you guys in the US are underestimating how much trust your allies have lost in the US in a very short time. It's one thing to push your allies around, as successive administrations have done for decades, but to switch to treating them as serfs or almost enemies in a matter of months is going to leave scars.

[temneb]

There’s no indication yet that the US would sell us the F47. You didn’t want to sell the Raptor, who’s to say it’s going to be different this time?

[mikedignum]

Canada is looking at joining this group as well.

[cdyjv]

If the RAAF and JASDF had been allowed to buy the Raptor we wouldnt even be having this conversation right now

[RockSolitude]

Australia going for the GCAP seems to be the right idea. Even if the F47 turns out to be a way more advanced fighter, just getting it will come with a lot of strings attached and last time you guys didn't want us to have the F22 OR the B21 Raider when we asked. Australia would likely not be allowed to manufacture it either, let alone benefit from any technology transfer or involvement. Further, the F47 may well turn out to be the most expensive fighter jet in history so far, with a low rate of production and problems meeting US demand, deadlines and project targets. The GCAP on the other hand seems to be right on schedule if not ahead of it and one of the key aspects of the project was advances in manufacturing and assembly so that it's faster, easier and cheaper to make than even 5th generation jets. With the infrastructure the UK, Japan and Italy already have to support it, and the fact that Japan and the UK have similar needs in that they need long range jets same as Australia, and the fact that Australia would be invited to take part in the project at a much more involved level which would likely involve some technology transfer and domestic production, GCAP seems to be a much better bet with no strings attached.

[JIMDEZWAV]

Australias ghost bat loyal wingman fits in with this collaberation

[gabehorn]

The arrogance of Americans thinking that any choice but their offer must be a bargaining tactic is so typical. Also keep up.... japan rejected saudi's entry into the project, as for requirements, Japan and Britain are both island nations while Italy is a peninsula all require the same type of interceptor to replace current models.

[bertjilk]

The US has lost its collective mind and, as an Australian taxpayer, I'd like our money spent with true, reliable friends.

[donkeymarco]

GCAP. The engine development, adaptative cycle, was already started in Japan since 2020.
Airframe was already in development in UK.
Electronic / navigation, sensors, ... are always in development.
Demo vehicle for GCAP is expected to fly in 2027.
To note that UK was level 1 partner in F-35 program, Italy level 2 partner.
Italy and Japan are the only two countries outside U.S.A. with a FACO (Final Assembly and Check Out)) facilities.

[goodshipkaraboudjan]

At Avalon during the trade show BAE had a huge presence. Lots of high level talks were held between them and the brass. More so than any action at the US pavilion.

[aquamanw]

Because now, to maintain its sovereignty, Europe will no longer purchase American equipment. And what's more, France, with Dassault, Airbus Germany, and Airbus Spain, is currently building a 6th-generation fighter SCAF to replace the Rafale, along with a naval version, and ITAR free of course !

[obananamano]

What happened to Ukraine, where the US basically said "you're on your own" is what could potentially happen to other allies. We need to invest elsewhere.

[gdriver]

Because the F47 is a Boeing product, very good idea to look at other options.

[druspork]

Australia ideally requires extended range and then efficient ground attack rather than simply air superiority. The F16 would be largely useless in Australia, the FA18 was a stop gap but neither it nor the F35 really perform in a way that truly suits Australia. The last fighter we had that came close was the F111. If you take a look at sizing and shape of the CCAP it looks to have a basic spec that MIGHT go closer. The RAAF will do well to keep an eye on it, in fact I'd prefer we were investing in the design. The next issue is cost, Australia just can't afford the sort of cost suggestions that surround the NGAD. CCAP will need costs that suit UK/Italy/Japan and that might better suit Australia as well. And then add in the dubious support from the US to NATO. Australia may well be very much locked into US defence supply chain but surely gradual widening of the supply chain over time will be under consideration for all future Australian defence spending.

[langdons]

As an Australian - given that our prime minister at the time agreed to buy the F35 with NO consideration for suitability and the fact that the USA cannot be trusted any more, I strongly agree with looking at alternatives.

[rhino]

There was a fascinating article I just read on the Sydney Morning Herald, discussing the tariffs on Australian exports to the US. The article focussed initially on Senator Mark Warner grilling Jamiseon Greer on why there are tariffs on Australia. The following quotes were noted: "The US is “running up the score” by hitting Australia with tariffs despite already enjoying a trade surplus with the country, Donald Trump’s trade chief says, " and "United States Trade Representative Jamieson Greer was grilled about Australia by Mark Warner, a Democratic senator from Virginia, who said the tariffs were insulting to Australia and undermined the AUKUS defence pact that was “terribly important” for both countries’ national security." This isn't the actions of a friend.

Thus, the option of going with the GCAP, which is actually a lot further down the development road than you guys discuss here, would obviously help address this trade in balance, by, you know not buying downgraded American aircraft, as explicitly stated by Donald Trump (that's some real art of the deal skills in action right there).

But, lets discuss the real problem: rare earths. The F-35 uses 416kg of the stuff, a Virginia class submarine uses tonnes of it. We all know China dominates the markets for this minerals, both mining and refining. So, why given Donald's obsession with these commodities, would he and his administration slap tariffs on a friendly country with extensive experience in mining and refining who actually have a solid reserve of them including mines being stood up now for them? Lets not forget the rocket surgeons in the Whitehouse slapped tariffs on McDonald and Heard Islands, Australian islands which are only inhabited by Penguins and seals in the far south of the Indian Ocean, that are visited maybe once every three years, make it make sense to me guys.

[steve-iwbg]

Tempest program is 10 years old already, a demonstrator is being built now and will be flying in 2 years.

[_DarkEmperor]

Global Defense Initiative - a faction from the game Command & Conquer.