DACs that don't upsample or modify

There's a class of DACs that eschew upsampling and leave the signal untouched. Any good?

[InsideOfMyOwnMind]

I love these chats with the weekend cleaning guy. I think I've watched every one of them.

[nirodha]

I think this is a variation on the analog/digital discussion. If your ears/mind prefer an analog sound, the non-upsampling products of Audio Note are tops. However, if you think/feel that audio has progressed by the data retrieval of modern dacs, upsampling is the way to go. Both have a reason to be.

[pablolubbert]

I have an Aurender A15 and I keep sampling rate OFF, I find it more analog than up sampling, but that's just me.

[pebbleschan]

It’s great to see some ESD equipment! I hope the staff wear the appropriate footwear or heel straps for the ESD floor mats to work. If not done so already, deploy suitable ESD ion generators to areas with proximity to insulators such as plastics to appropriately neutralise any charges on them.

[hugobloemers]

Whenever you address a problem you inevitably add complexity to the chain. The question becomes, is this worth the trouble and what does it cost to do it right? I think both standpoints could be right in a sense that those who believe in the less is more philosophy prefer not to do things rather than doing them bad. Those who believe in fixing flaws and doing it right, are probably getting better sound, but if that is all over, remains the question. So it then comes down to how much emphasis do you put on different aspects of the sound. It actually always comes down to that when it comes to different design strategies.

[arthurott]

Hey Paul, I attended a conference in Denver May 13 -16 so I scheduled a tour of PS Audio on the 17th before I flew out. I enjoyed the tour and it was great seeing the facility but I was really bummed that you weren't there. I was really looking forward to meeting you and having you sign my copy of The Audiophile's Guide: The Loudspeaker. BTW, the listening room system sounded great!

[danab]

My streaming DAC has a DSD upsampler. Without changing anything else, in room measurements comparing upsampled with not upsampled are very different. The upsampled DSD boosts the entire midrange.

[MrDishdonkey]

A British Audiophile has just reviewed 'their' lowest tier DAC and gave it an outstanding review. My Gustard R26 DAC upsamples, but I prefer it off and upsampling 44.1 to 88.2 on Roon. Sounds more natural. All Hi Res I prefer left alone. Its only 'slightly' better than 44.1 at 88.2 and much better than any higher. We all interpret sound differently, system synergy also plays a part. This other company (yep Audionote) do use own made caps etc and a valve output stage with an old philips R2R DAC.

[cesarjlisboa]

Besides the DSD conversion, and jitters correction for the digital signal restoration it’s the focus; all other efforts looks to me like the equalizer of the digital age, nothing else more. The original signature captures of the digital signals and the restoration, is the audiophile goal. Forget the rest.

[barrymiller]

I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer to the original question. I have never heard an Audio Note (for it is they) dac outside an Audio Note system. But I HAVE been consistently impressed with the sounds that AN systems produce.

[titntin]

Unless you have very high quality processing, they talk a lot of sense. Oversampling being a case in point. Lots of people will automatically upsample and immediately tell you they can hear more 'air' or a ' larger sound stage', but critical listening will show you have lost some 'body' and textural details in the timbre become less distinct, for a lot of cheaper dacs/streamers.
I use a Chord Hugo TT2 Dac and for lot of dacs/streamers around the 1k range Ive found this to be true, the more correct sound for me appears to be when the bits are delivered without processing. However, Ive heard my dac with the m-scaler upscaler and this appears to achieve the bennifits of upscaling without the sacrafices. From what Ive heard, I think this also applies to high quality dsd conversion and upscaling such as used in ps audios products.
I think the useual rules apply: if you are going to adjust the data stream it needs complex and well designed manipulation that is typically only offered by the better designed and more expensive options. If you are going to manipulate the data, you have to do it right or dont do it.
I remain not up sampling for now while I save for my upscaler as I believe the sound I get is truer to source than upsampling in my streaming bridge. I felt the same while setting up an A6 for a friend, though I believe he prefers it on. Thats ok, we all like different things..

[SantanKGhey]

the signal is manipulated in your system as it passes through every component... its what gives a sound signature. Digital or analog...its what sounds best synergistically

[odizcvw]

If the wine tastes good enjoy it without worrying about what the vineyard did to produce it.
I buy the argument that music recorded by Octave at DSD256 will sound best played on a DSD256 based DAC. Down sampling and PCM conversion are all lossy events.
But when it comes to a Red Book CD which represents the vast majority of available music I like NOS R2R playback without even a high frequency filter. As soon as you introduce even a simple low pass filter at 20k, to me some of the magic starts to evaporate. So I guess I am in the Audio Note camp.

[dbrodbro]

In my system, oversampling sounds "polished". 16/44.1 seems to have more analog grip and dynamics. Ref: Denafrips Ares II R-2R.

[AntoninPassemardPaintings]

The proof is in the pudding. AudioNote rocks. Period

[t.j.bennett]

Most dacs both low and high end have abilities to upsample and convert these days and it’s as simple as pressing a button. Incorporating these processes into the music can have cool effects but can absolutely will introduce negative effects. It’s nothing new to see where people will always choose Non over sampling because it sounds more natural. When you compare over sampling to non you can always tell the over sampled is fake. So depends who you ask. Ask someone who does know audio and they will probably prefer the over sampled because possibly more 3 dimensional. Ask someone who knows the inside out of their music albums and they’ll probably choose non over sampling.

[banginghats]

I'd love to hear their DAC though.

[gioponti]

my 2 cts: my streamer has an upsampling fct which can be activated or deactivated and which can be set to various levels of computational effort that can be deactivated. paired with my older dac (arcam irdac, lin psu, excellent usb aq coffee) active upsampling improved things in all sorts of musical styles. with my newr dac (chord qutest), things are different: the new dac upsamples with a lot more computational power and upsampling to higher dac input resolution via streamer turns out to sound less real than feeding the original resolution into the Qutest dac. In other words: I am sure the 16/44 only dac sounds nice, but I doubt the Qutest or a similar dac will not sound a bit better in terms of fluidity, 3d, effortless hi frequ resolution w/o glare or hardness, even prat. also pure nos dac would need to filter out harmonics somehow, at rel low cut off frequency, to avoid intermodulation distortion, or leave IM untreated. neither of which sounds like a good idea to me.

Best advice however is to compare things yourself, inna transparent system, and over a couple of days.

[spandel]

16/44.1 seems to, if we are talking good recordings, have less irritation on my tinnitus, if any at all.These high KHZ recordings cause my tinnitus to become intrusive and louder.There must be something to this.Electronic sibilance, although not audible, is present at these high KHZ rates and can be wearing, even on those who don't suffer from tinnitus.

[PSA]

I guess things can go wrong with the digital signal if you don't know what you're doing, but in general it's not going to be an issue. DSP is all about 'messing' with the digital signal, and yes things can 'go wrong', but not if you know what you're doing.
Cheaper DAC can certainly benefit from upsampling and sound better, or rather they won't sound as bad due to not being able to filter.