Installing Swales in Clay & Poor Draining Soils

This Q&A is pulled from a collection of questions posed to me by students of my Online Permaculture Design Course (PDC). Learn more with my free four-part Masterclass series, here:

Question:

Thinking about swales for a food forest in my poorly draining clay soils, we have heavy winter rains that mud things up followed by dry summers that completely dry the soil until it cracks. I'm worried that before the trees are established the water won't be able to infiltrate and we'll only worsen our water logging problem with the swale. Is deep ripping the swale trenches the answer to this? Should I be considering a different measure with swales or something completely different avoiding swale installation entirely?

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[Christodophilus]

I was very interested in this, as we hand-dug our swales, in clay. Waiting a couple of days after it rained though, as it's like cement otherwise. We didn't do any ripping, and find the cracks which appear in the swale in the dry, fill up and expand in the wet. So you don't actually lose water, if that's what Paul is worried about. Our clay, holds onto the water, deep down, and loses it last, when all the well draining soils have sunk their water to the acquifiers. Because clay perculates slower.

We found we had to expand our swales wider, and/or deepen them, to accommodate the heaviest flows. So we weren't losing water in big falls. Or we'd simply expand more swales, or put in a pond, from the overflow. I've not seen a need for ripping, when using pioneer trees, or trees with the ability to live in clay. We've had success with mulberries, carob, olives, mango and even citrus, if planted on a mound. Pioneer trees are select acacias, pigeon peas, leucana and saltbush for understorey. Grasses which do well, are lemongrass, lomandra and vetiver.

Establishing is the hardest phase though. Best get your plants in the ground, during autumn. They have a chance to push their roots down for nine months, before the heat of the next summer. But they still need additional water during summer, for those first few years. Swales definitely work in clay though, and haven't regretted building ours.

[TheVigilantStewards]

This was a really good one. We have a lot of clay in Texas.... this kind of touched on a question I have and that is this : How do you rip deeper than a ripper, oxygenate deeply, and develop healthy soil up to 10-12 feet down? It sounds like once you get the first 2-3 feet going, the roots take care of the rest. Do you ever inject compost tea deep in the soil?

If swales are a tree growing system, I'd like to see the ideal system for the kitchen garden. I've seen your chicken compost making areas... I'd be curious if someone lived a plant based life if you would still opt for that.

In permaculture, do we just deal with forests, grassland, and wetland?

[saucywench]

I'll say it again. Put Geoff Lawton in a room with Peter Andrews, Alan Savory and Paul Stamets and we can not only figure out how to rehab the environment but also take care of pollution and weather the continuous climate change successfully!

[etherealrose]

Another relevant video for me out in the dry desert. I just wish I had more land to experiment on.

thanks for sharing expertise for free, Geoff. it inspires me and hopefully I can inspire others and we can bring back what feeds us all (plant, air. and soil life.)

[montpellierpermaculture]

Geoff, thank you for all the knowledge you share into your videos ! More specifically, what pioneering trees with deep tap roots and loving waterlogging would you recommand for a hot and dry mediterranean climate ? Cheers !

[Homefree]

How is “having all that clay around” gonna “make springs pop up everywhere”?!

[emkoravo]

Any soil amendment methods to improve flocculation in addition to or in lieu of mechanical methods?

[barrymacfarlane]

Hi Geoff, I've watched a lot your videos and you've really inspired me. With regards to swales in the kind of climate in the video, hot dry Mediterranean, with rainfall coming in short storms. I've just bought 7ha in central Portugal, and my current thinking is to construct a network of mostly narrow trench swales, I'm thinking 600mm wide, upto 2.5m deep, and having these filled with woodchips to act as a large sponge. I've got a heavy clay soil on a moderate, west facing slope, I'm looking at rainfall patterns and sunshine/heat. What I'm thinking is lots of deep, narrow swales would be more effective at storing and distributing water over the long term, than shallower, wider swales with ponds. I'm thinking ponds here would lose a lot to evaporation and a larger network of narrow, deep, swales would, be more effective in storing and slowly distributing water. Would you have any thoughts on this?

[fillfinish]

Look at that dog just walking non chalantly, 😊

[b_uppy]

Geoff, sounds like you are talking regarding hardpan or blue clay, hence ripping the soil under both berm and swale.

[SaltyFingers_SD]

When someone asks how I’m doing I say “swale” 😂

[wudangmtn]

Very helpful info, as I have clay soil also. Thank you!

[outoftheratrace]

I have recently purchased some land that is heavy with clay soil and also has a large amount of rainfall in the wet season, resulting in flooding. The land is also very flat. Have you witnessed successful use of swales in this type of tropical environment as buffers for flood waters?

[yinqingquan]

What do you mean when you say 'rip'?

[olsonlr]

[Psa 1:1-3 KJV] 1 Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. 2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. 3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

[Mindy]

I live in the ozark mountains of Missouri and we have red clay and rocks. The top soil is only about a inch think and I am dreaming about turning my 30 acres into a permaculture homestead. What would you recommend for the first step. Thank you for the time

[przybyla]

So for micro swales you would just broadfork or rent a lawn aerator?

[karlb]

"What Permaculture Got Wrong - Dispelling Five Common Myths. off grid with curtis stone, and Richard perkins, ridgedale farm"

these two gents created two beautiful videos on this subject, i myself interested in good feedback on their videos from permaculture movement.
I'm planning on living in Lithuania, and I'm interested if swales makes sense, please could you make video with some good counter arguments, or there is none on what these farmers are saying ?

[MachucaPermies]

What are some low tech methods to effectively rip the swales?

[MhUser]

what should i do when i v got clay and only 200m2 of backyard that i want to convert into a food forest and i v got no place for wide swales or huge amount of trees; how do i improve water retention capabilites of a small area