Is It Trauma or Resilience?

If the story of humanity is about loss, privation, suffering, and resilience, why are kids having nervous breakdowns about bad grades?

In today’s episode, I talked to Abigail Shrier about what parents and mental health experts are inadvertently doing to rob young people of the resilience and grit that past generations had.

Head to my main channel for the full ep. It’s a spicy one. Enjoy.

#markmanson #therapy #trauma #traumahealing #badtherapy

[lizardo]

I don’t know man my parents are pretty resilient but they’re also pretty fucked up

[kenirok]

This is a ridiculous viewpoint. You can experience true trauma and injury, and also experience healing and resilience. Ignoring injury is not resilience, it’s denial. If you break your leg, you need to heal, relearn how to use the leg, and then move forward. That’s resilience. But if you keep walking on a broken leg, refusing to acknowledge that it’s broken? That’s pride and foolishness. Don’t let others tell you that you don’t need to heal so you can grow.

[Dragonmoon]

I don't argue with the perspective. But, it's very situational what counts as resilience and character building vs. what is traumatic and destructive.

[chrisdell]

I doubt any therapist would tell a kid, "Well, you're f***ed for life now. Don't try to overcome this, " after acknowledging the trauma. People deserve to be validated.

[sunny-szik]

tell that to my unresolved childhood trauma that was never labelled and has built up to a shit ton of social anxiety, security issues and mini flashbacks from time to time 🗿

[michaelchamberlain]

I am a child of abuse, this woman was coddled in comfort and her opinions reflect that fact!

[kimberlyvergez]

I love hearing "in my day, we did such and such and I turned out fine!" No actually, you didn't, and I can see it from here. The whole suck it up perspective left us deeply damaged and incapable of true intimacy. (Imagine a young person sharing their feelings with THIS gal). While I don't believe we should move into our trauma and set up housekeeping, having an awareness of the forces that drive and stunt us make it possible to move forward

[Retro_Sean]

Why is she so mad? 🤔
My therapist helped me grow from my trauma by processing it. I used to be angry like this woman, now I’m a better person from my therapist walking me through my trauma. Not everything is black and white.

[lostartoflove]

There are a lot of YouTube videos out there that explain trauma in a way that allows people to dwell on things and use it as an excuse. Someone could easily go down the rabbit hole and go from video to video reinforcing their victimhood.

Just like this video, they overblow the problem without offering any solutions. And people will use it to justify their beliefs.

Maybe there are some therapists out there that are lazy and just let people drone on about petty injustices. But they are the exceptions.

I've been to some therapists. While some of them didn't seem to be quite the right fit for me, none of them ever went down the path of using trauma as an excuse. Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact. They tend to want to explore what the events mean to me in my life, and help me to see the unhealthy adaptations that I acquired because of seriously emotional events. I have flashbacks, misplaced anger, avoidant tendencies, and more! It takes a lot of reflection, talking, making changes, and feedback to heal.

Sometimes traumatic events sound trivial to others. But it is not right for someone else to judge how one is affected by something.

Yes I am becoming stronger because of the adversities I have faced. But for a long time, I have been seriously weakened. It took me years of trying to trudge through it like the badass I am before finally admitting I needed professional help.

[souljascott]

Most people in their 80's did in fact go through a lot. At the same time they had access to more exploits in this country than everyone ever. Just because one thing exists doesn't stop the other.

[hulagu]

What doesn't kill you actually makes you weaker.

[andreeacristinatudor]

As a therapist I’m loving the critical thinking in these comments, keep going at it y’all! Short clips like these shitting on evidence-based therapies to incite a rejection and uproar against the well-needed normalisation of therapy can be damaging, particularly when it comes to traumatic events that trigger PTSD. If you’re experiencing reliving symptoms and avoidance and you’ve no idea what’s going on, the last thing you need is someone who doesn’t have the education and clinical experience saying “therapy is damaging to you, you’ll become more resilient if you deal with it on your own, look at our grandparents” (who by the way some of them have buried stuff so deep and unwillingly let that spill over into gen x, millenials and gen z’s upbringings). Imagine how this would sound if they were to talk about the medical field this way e.g. how our grandparents adapted to the effects of the wars without limbs just fine, so you wouldn’t need to go to the hospital if you suffered a severe blow to your leg. Or e.g. “our grandparents didn’t have this medication and they do okay, you will be better without meds too”

I haven’t listened to the podcast and it’s specifically the message of the short that comes across as damaging. I’m assuming you’re creating these podcasts to help people and you have every right to express your opinions but disclaimers around your and the interviewees’ professional experiences and whether they are a psychologist would go a long way in overcoming misinformation and all or nothing thinking. We don’t need more division in the world and not at all when it comes to seeking mental health support if and when you need it.

[stone]

you need a balance. acknowledge your trauma but also acknowledge that it is your responsibility, and only your responsibility to overcome and learn from it. the reason trauma healing sucks so much is because it's forced responsibility for undue pain and suffering.

[MissLida]

I disagree on this one Mark. I used to tell myself the same thing when I was a teenager. And that "resilience" was actually me shutting away emotionally and then just taking out my trauma on others through my triggers. And also I have a low window of tolerance in stressful situations. So basically a normal person can handle the same environment and situation while I tend to get overwhelmed and freeze up or get burnt out. Pretty sure that's the opposite of resilience.

[cookiecaticat]

Lmao no it's best to acknowledge, validate, and address trauma. It is society's intolerance for uncomfortable emotions that makes things worse by adding shame into the mix.

[sarag]

This is a slippery slope, which can lead to people perpetuating the grossly misguided “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” perspective towards anything and anybody. Couple that with the “pick yourself up by your bootstraps” mentality and you’ve got a recipe for - guess what… more trauma!! ✨ those perspectives can exacerbate feelings of inadequacy &/or brokenness when someone is already down and struggling while feeling alone. Yes, the stories we frame for ourselves are important and we need to keep the hope by cultivating inner resilience… AND we need to help people recognize trauma for what it is and make them feel supported, encouraged, and accepted as they go through processing what’s happened. People are not their trauma, AND you don’t just magically develop resilience from trauma automatically. You need to process in the presence and support of others.

[jemmrich]

I've thought about this for years and years! Some people will be oblivious and seemingly happy about their life no matter what happened, but i noticed that there is a growing trend of people telling someone or insisting that someone is a victim, they are a survivor, and it shifts them from being happy and feeling strong, into a victim mentality and down a mental spiral. It makes me think, how can doing something like that be seen as helping someone. Isn't therapy meant to do good, not harm?

[MotocrossElf]

This is so dangerous. It really very much depends on the trauma. There are certain traumas you don't simply get over without a lot of work and help and it's incredibly dangerous in those cases to say it's just about the narrative. It's not.

[brooksholley]

Most of those “old people” also projected their negative beliefs about themselves onto others and never really got anywhere in life besides what was expected of them. True resilience is accepting what happened to you; it’s reframing the negative beliefs about yourself and the world around you into constructive ones, not dismissing it.

[ngn]

True. If you blame all your problems on external factors you can't control, you'll never solve any of them, only continue being miserable.

It helps you shunt responsibility though. That feels good in the moment, I guess.