The Dark Side of Fairy Tales | Jonathan Pageau

Jonathan Pageau is a French-Canadian liturgical artist, writer, and public speaker on religious philosophy, symbolism, and Orthodox Christianity. Pageau’s commentary can be found on his YouTube channel, “The Symbolic World,” as well as in Dr. Jordan B. Peterson’s 17-part “Exodus” seminar and The Daily Wire’s latest series, “Foundations of the West.” In today’s episode, Jonathan and I discuss the biblical themes found in classical fairy tales like “Jack and the Beanstalk,” and the important role that storytelling plays in establishing our most deeply held cultural norms. Pageau also speaks to the modern uses of symbolism, from the prevalence of conspiracy theories to the real meaning behind the opening ceremony at the Paris Olympics. Stay tuned, and welcome back to another episode of the Sunday Special.

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[jimmiferfreddette]

Johnathan almost single handedly brought me back to Christianity after 20yrs of being and atheist. I’ve listened to everything Johnathan has been on or made. Glad to see he is getting more exposure.

[dctamayo]

I just clicked play and honestly, Ben is the first person who I have ever heard properly introduce Pageau. Most interviewers call him “an icon carver” and he is so much more than that.

[darrenpenley]

The apex of Sunday specials. This is the one! Love Jonathan Pageau. “The tyranny of the exception” Wow!

[hannahbaker]

Sooo cool how right after I become an Orthodox Christian, they seem to be everywhere, we’re really having a moment right now and being in the zeitgeist.

[wv]

Johnathan blows my mind anytime he speaks. Thanks for having him on 🎉🎉

[chadnine]

Love Johnathan Pageau. His perpective has helped me understand symbolism and narrative and how it influences people.

[BluVie]

This conversation makes me think of
Romeo and Juliet (which was a mainstay in high school for several recent generations). The two teens throw off the generational history, knowledge, and traditions and society to create a utopia with each other, only to destroy themselves. We were taught this as if it was lovely and brave, and only a tragedy in that they came close to success but accidentally failed… as if to tell us to mimic them but just communicate better with each other so we could reach success. We were never taught to consider the tragedy of the broken relationships with family and society, and how that brokenness would have remained even if they had been successful in getting married. It definitely helped shape the romanticization of revolt and “hope and change” and “love is love trumps all reason/truths/traditions” that helped create the crazy generations that followed my own.

[aaroncanfield]

Jonathan Pageau is one of those people that helps bring clarity to the world around us.

[timmckinstry]

Jonathan Pageau's insghts into storytelling and especially his decoding of these old fairy tales is incredibly fascinating.

[zzzaaayyynnn]

Jonathan Pageau is a genius at making the interpretation of symbols understandable and relevant!

[chelseaferguson]

So happy to have found Johnathan Pageau, it’s so awesome to see that we’re not crazy for seeing symbolism everywhere.

[BobbyMick-cb]

Interesting interview.
Excellent early question from Ben about the use of magic in many tales vs explicit Biblical warnings against divination.

[dawnmuir]

Wonderful! Jonathan is the best! So great to see him on your show, with someone of intelligence and faith who appreciates his important and paradigm shifting work. Thanks, Ben!

[virginiamontgomery]

Bravo! This is our new punk rock and it's only going to shift onto even better "music" as we go. Can I make a request for Ben to interview Ian McGilchrist? His understand of how the left and right hemispheres of the brain is another example of logic and poetry embodied at the highest levels.

[naikhanomtom]

Jonathan and his brother are both absolute gokd mines of wisdom.

[anthonydaniel]

Thank you Ben and Jonathan - in my days of being a scholar, I was interested in the connection of religion and folk tales with popular culture. I did bring this into the classroom I taught. Mr. Pageou is doing a much better job than I could, and now I can check out his work.

[shawnbrewer]

Through the prayers of our holy fathers, Lord Jesus Christ our God, have mercy on us and save us.

[jtcybulski]

Peak state. I haven’t seen this intellectual side of Shapiro. He really brought out the best in Pageau. Need to re-watch a few more times to lock in these downloads.

[adamvano]

Did anyone else notice how Jonathan is also brought into the more rapid pattern of speech and thinking that Ben inhabits and how everything is slightly sped up? ? :D

[j.reesebradley]

Problem is we can’t let our conscience be our guide because our hearts are deceitful and desperately sick.