Samsung 64D8000 judder - Cinema Smooth ON/OF 24Hz vs 60Hz

MOVIE: RED
TIME: 4 Minutes

First round: 24hz source, cinema smooth OFF
Second round: 24hz source, cinema smooth ON
Third round: 60hz source, no option for cinema smooth

NOTE:
- The brightness flucts seen here are from the camera
- The "quantity" of judder caught by the camera is not the same in real life. In real life is much worse. But still we can se some small diferences
- In the second round (24hz / cinema smooth ON) it seems here much better, but in real life is not, almost the same with CS OFF

LOOK AT THE ELECTRIC POST OR TREES
MAKE SOME PAUSES TO SEE THE JUDDER BETTER, YOU WILL SEE DOUBLE IMAGES

[RamssesPharaoh]

@pedrocaspedrocas Thank you; that post answers one of my concerns. Glad to know that the difference is not wide enough to impact the overall quality in a negative way.

[pedrocaspedrocas]

@gfunkgfunk First i changed my mediaplayer output to 24p and on the samsung selected Cinemasmooth ON and OFF

[sugarpuffextrem]

Got this movie in bluray and tested it earlier today on my Panasonic st50 65 inch.
Judders like CRAZY throughout the entire panning if I have Panasonic version of cinema smooth (IFC) turned off.
When I got IFC on mid or max it's very smooth and judders occasionally... 2 or 3 "hiccups" during the entire pan =)

Not perfect but a HUGE improvement.

[bbaasje]

I'm glad I'm not the only one with that problem. I didn't mention this before but the LG also had the speaker vibrating against the outside making specific tones horrible and humming like crazy. I also returned it and bought a Samsung plasma with a free BD player, the sound on the 2012 models is worse than the 2011 models so bought the MM-D430D Micro set for a bargain. Not only was it cheaper than the LG it is way better.

[sugarpuffextrem]

Heard there are some mediaplayers for pc, dont remember their names but it was not vlc nor wmp, that have some kind of interpolation options.

anyways, peter jacksson seem to be the first guy going in the right direction. His movie The Hobbit will be filmed in 48 fps for the movie theatres... hope more directors do the same and perhaps we will have a new home theatre standard with 48 fps movies =)

[ptdayton]

@pedrocaspedrocas I had already seen your set in AVforums. Nice set, nice pics and nice room, I envy you :)
I finally decided for the 64d8000 (I got it for 1600 euros, and that's too much tempting). Now i'm am waiting for it and crossing fingers that come free of the peeling problem and others issues...
Thank you so much for your feedback :)

[ptdayton]

@pedrocaspedrocas Nice. I was been watching "Edge of Darkness" and I easily detect about five fluctuations per minute :S and the black bars very often became gray when they supposed to be near black. Maybe was the movie, maybe was the set, I don't know.
How about the black levels? Do you feel the BL decrease when the CS is enabled?

Thank you.

[BackRoadsAndTurbos]

Uploaded a couple of vids of a game on Xbox with the same issue. Is a bit more apparent... Unsure if I can live with it.

Played that scene in Red and barely noticed it?

[ptdayton]

@pedrocaspedrocas I'd like to try it but i don't have the VT30 (maybe soon). All I can say is that in my Panny Z1(2009) I can see this effect also.

Now I have to choose between a 64B8000 and a 55VT30 (I get them at the same price). I saw them both in a store and i really like how the Sammy looks (even better than the VT30 in a bright room). But i noticed some brightness fluctuations that don't like me at all :(
Have you detected brightness fluctuations on your D8000?

[boredtrophyhusband]

"Even purists should enable "Cinema Smooth" because it does basically the same thing as what cinema projectors do and it looks atrocious without it. I suspect consumers simply turn it off because they think it's a fake "enhancement" rather than an essential feature."

[pedrocaspedrocas]

@ptdayton81 Remember that I am a Panasonic Fan...but for this year of 2011 the best unit for me between the VT30 and the D8000, the Samung is the winner. Don´t forget one important thing...for 3D the bigger the better! Even with 64 inches you will want more! Don´t forget also that some units of the 64D8000 come with a screen peeling. I received my second unit (built in July) and doesn´t have the problem, but the first one (built in June) had it but Samsung exchange it immediatly.

[pedrocaspedrocas]

@pedrocaspedrocas I know that CS will decrease the black performance, but the truth is that i don´t see any difference. But for sure that with a proper meter, there are differences, but to my eye...i cannot see. One of my priorities for buying a new TV was the black level performance. I loved the LED units of Samsung, very bright images but at night, in a dark room, i could see that the black levels were not so good. But on the Plasma the blacks are simply excellent.

[pedrocaspedrocas]

@ptdayton81 Hello again, I am a Panasonic Fan. I love the image quality of all my Panasonics Plasmas. But this year i tryed the Samsung because for the same size it was 1000 euros less (64D8000 vs 65VT30). Before i buy, i went to lots of stores to see them alive. The picture of the Samsung, for me, was better. The Panasonic was too dim. Both have Brightness flucs. But you will no see them every time. Only in some movies at specific scenes.

[bigboiog]

i also had a 3d lg led and it had the same problem, returned to get the same one, and same thing, ended up returning it and getting a way better non lg

[bbaasje]

turn off the auto motion function and the noise filters. trust me. just try it and let me know if it helps :D
by doing so the TV shouldn't have to do the extra processing (and add the frames) and it should help a lot! so the soap opera effect should be gone. I guess you've already tried everything but just turn everything which has to do with the picture off. I will get the movie and test it on my TV just to be sure.

[pedrocaspedrocas]

Yes, IFC is a real help. But the problem is the sopa opera effect associated... But at least its an advantage that the Samsung D plasmas don´t have. Sometimes i wish IFC option in my D8000... I already tried to search media player centers (mine is a Netgear NTV550) with Motion Interpolation (IFC) but i returned with 0 results....

[bbaasje]

ok so got the movie from a friend and watched it on my PC (2ms screen) and it judders. So to be honest I think it's the scene. The snow doesn't help either as it requires a lot of contrast. So does it also occurs on dark scenes? cause that's the only scene which judders on my systems.

[DarkLinkAD]

Crystal Player does a decent job at motion interpolation.(Tested on Windows 7) 

  My Samsung doesn't seem to have Jutter issue. Ive watched many Bluerays on the PS3.
 Ive also forced 24hz, 60hz, (60, 75hz at 1024x768)(96hz 480i, 1080i, 1080p) using a laptop, with hdmi.  Resolutions IIRC 640x480 720x480 800x600 1024x768 1024x800, 1360x768, 1280x720, 1920x1080 all available in Progressive and Interlaced. 
(There could be more hiding in there)

[ptdayton]

Is this your first plasma?
I'm asking because I noticed that in every single plasma I've tested. You can even see this effect in the VT30 (2011 panasonic's flagship plasma) videos.

And as far as I know this isn't judder.

*sorry about my english ^^

[pedrocaspedrocas]

@ptdayton81 Hi, i have 4 plasmas and this is my first Samsung. My other 3 are all Panasonic. Because all my Panasonic plasmas are old (2007) i expect to see judder and for that is normal. But this Samsung is new and i expected that this judder problems was all issues already solved....but they aren´t. Try to see this scene on your VT30 from the movie RED and then give me your opinion. I was going to buy the 65VT30 but after seeing the image i didn´t notice much improvement over the Samsung..