Russian Bias At Top Tier

I know I talked about top tier Russia a week ago, but a rather interesting development has popped out. A post to the War Thunder subreddit displayed that the internal armor plate surrounding the autoloaders of Russian MBTs did not produce spall, while internal armor of other nations did. Even Chinese tanks with essentially the same autoloader had their plates produce spall. Is that true? Is this clear cut evidence of Russian bias?

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#warthunder​​​​​​​​​​​​ #tanks​​​​​​​​​​​​ #tankhistory

[Spookston]

I currently having an inquiry with Gaijin as to why the plates don't spall. While I believe they're steel IRL, it's possible that it's an aramid spall liner. There are also a surprising amount of comments which seemed to entirely miss the point of the video. I thought I made it explicitly clear that I do not think Russian tanks being buffed unrealistically is a good thing, and advocated for the changes to be reversed. I'm sorry if this is harsh, but I feel that saying it is Russian bias because "Bias is when something is favored unfairly, and Russian tanks are being favored unfairly" is being obtuse. The term "Russian bias" in War Thunder has always referred to *nationalistic* bias, IE Russian vehicles being buffed purely because the devs are Russian. That is what the video is talking about. Top tier Russian tanks are being favored because it's monetarily efficient to cycle through making one nation extremely powerful at top tier. Players are lured to buy premium vehicles and time by dangling this performance over their heads, saying "This nation is the best, you don't want to be on the losing side do you?" This same scenario has been mirrored before with other nations. Upon its introduction, the M1 Abrams was incredibly overpowered and was modeled in such a way that it practically could not be ammo racked. The AH-1Z was completely uncontested when it was added two updates later. Favor shifted towards Germany after that.They received the 2A5, 2A6, and F&F PARS missiles. The 2A5 and 2A6 had some very questionable DM modeling which made them stupidly strong, and they didn't receive true equals until recently. I shouldn't have to elaborate on how broken Germany was, it's recent enough that everyone should remember. Now Russia is in the spotlight. All nations had win rates in excess of 70% during their dominance, and would you believe it, just a few BRs lower their teams would always be filled with swarms of rank 6 premiums. XM1 spam, L44 spam, TURMS spam, they all have the same root cause. Screaming "Russian bias" is making the leap to the least likely conclusion and it poisons any discussion about balancing top tier. It makes anyone calling for Russian tanks to be nerfed look like a conspiracy theorist.

[thebbqbandito]

Me who plays only low tier: Hmm yes this information very helpful.

[OddBawZ]

There is no Russian Bias. It's just completely by chance that Russian vehicles at any BR have a better chance of surviving due to volumetric shells and lack of spalling. Also, their APHE design is clearly superior and that's why it can penetrate angled armour far better than any other nation in the game. Their soldiers are also tougher too, so a T-34 driver can easily stop a 17 pdr shell with his chest at near point blank range saving everyone else inside the vehicle! :)

Oh, their metal is also SO good it can't create fragments. The sheer audacity that you think it could be penetrated in the first place makes me scoff. /s

[saltysteel]

The Abrams has anti spall lining coatings. The armor is classified but generally known to be steel outer skin, ceramic honeycomb to absorb HEAT and chemical warheads, and depleted uranium plates, then internal steel skin with spall lining coatings.

[XEyedNb]

I did notice this weird damage pattern: driver and engine knocked out but nothing in between.

[yansakovich]

So, all Russian MBTs do not spall, but it is not a Russian bias because one Russian MBT does spall and also a couple of Chinese MBTs do spall, isn't it? Or am I miss something?

[ZETH_]

I don't want to believe that there is Russian Bias, however Gaijin seems to be really good at fueling that fire.

[stalinyourleader]

do you think weird aspects of damage models in general could be a worthy topic? jank like tracks and optics consuming entire rounds even on otherwise very lightly armored vechiles is a really annoying issue. heat rounds also seem to be stopped completely by extremely minor internal obsticles even when those arent meant to stop heat shells

[MythicPi]

Video summed up: "Yes Russian tanks have coded in advantage over tanks of other nations, but since a few Chinese tanks also have it, and since its for financial and not nationalistic reasons, its definitely not bias despite the fact I spent the entire video telling you all the allegations are true."

Also Spookston,

Definition of Bias: Prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair."

Russian tanks primarily having armor which makes them more survivable than they should be (among other issues such as the ones you mentioned in this video) is the literal definition of Bias in favor of Russian vehicles.

[cattledog]

Spook: Spends entire video showing proof of Russian bias.

Also Spook: Concludes video by saying Russian bias doesn't exist.

[slimj]

Russian tanks being artificially stronger "because it makes more money" is not a good excuse.

[COLD]

Earlier today I was in a game playing a Leopard 2a6 shot my DM53 at a lower plate of a T80BVM, the driver and the edge of a fuel tank ate the round, in fact the driver didn't even die, the driver model just went red. He shot me back, with Stalin's bless, his round went through my barrel, breach and detonated the ammo.

[bananomet]

Lets see.
Giving russians the best CAS and a premium OP helicopter.
Giving russians most tanks at high/top tier.
Giving russians best jets and equipment at top tier.
Having russians winrate over 80% at top tier going unchecked while other nations recieve strong nerfs if they start to dominate (Sagittario 2 is the most recent example of that).
Blatant undetiering of russian vehicles compared to other nations similiar vehicles. To name a few - BMP2 at 8.7, 2S6 at 10.7, PT76-57 at 7.3....
Having the lowest repair costs even if the completely same vehicle is in other nations tree, russian vehicle will be at least 1/3 cheaper to repair guaranteed.
Slope armor modfiers to buff bouncing exclusive to russian vehicles.
Giving russians better thermal optics.
While leopard 2 for example - nerfed reload, nerfed round spall, nerfed hull armor, nerfed breech block armor and increased spall from breach block, nerfed thermals just because I guess.
Russian bias while meme in the past and equally laughable, it's now (for past year?) absolutely clear it exists and anyone denying it is either blind, russian main or in bed with Gaijin.
There is no doubt russia will get Mig29 in the april update.

[TurkYbAstEr]

I feel like motive isn't very important here, if Gaijin is buffing Russian tanks by effectively making them obey different laws of physics for financial motivations instead of for nationalistic motivations, the effect on the game is still the same: Russian tanks are being favored by Gaijin.

[VRstudio]

I love how Spookston keeps telling us the Russian Bias does not exist while dropping a nuke playing the Russian tanks

[t.sorvig]

"Russian tanks are clearly dominating at top tier, and there is some weird shit going on with their armor mechanics..."
*2 Minutes Later*
"I don't think there's any Russian bias at top tier..."

Fuckin what?

[pomelo]

There is no Russian bias. It's just that they get unreastically buffed while every other nation is supposed to remain realistic.

Also quite funny that the only other country who has been collaborating with Russia and is communist has the same issue.

[AnbeseGiraffe]

To be fair, the French Leclerc had this "issue" not too long ago. When penetrating the composite armor where the gunner is located, no spall happened just the dart phasing out of existence once it got through to the gunner.
The Leclerc had spall added not too long ago, personally I think at top tier you're better off shooting for crew regardless rather than relying on ammo cook-off and it's probably just people grasping onto anything out of frustration playing the game.

[pjhaebe]

Spook: Russian tanks are buffed
Spook: Russian tanks aren't biased, that would be stupid

[ROFLobster]

It’s extra ironic, because so far in the Russia-Ukraine War, spalling has been a major issue for Russian tanks.