Ancient Technology Podcast - Aswan Scoop Marks and Stone Softening | Marcell Fóti

Marcell Fóti has proposed an explanation for the enigmatic stonework of the ancient world. In our discussion, he delves into the Natron Theory, a comprehensive hypothesis on how the ancient Egyptians could fabricate stone. According to him, this theory also explains the mysterious scoop marks around the unfinished obelisk in Egypt, the polygonal masonry in Peru, and the manufacturing of precise Egyptian statues. He demonstrates his experiments where granite is chemically decomposed with primitive tools and recast into geopolymers.

SHOW NOTES:
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:02:18 - How it's started
00:14:46 - Natron Theory
01:05:36 - Results of casting
01:14:13 - Egyptian Statues
01:24:25 - Pyramids
01:28:41 - High Precision Vases

[chrislynn]

Very Interesting! Great Discussion again Karoly! Keep it up!

[energt]

Whether you agree with this theory or not, he did an excellent job putting his theory into a site for reference. I think more people should do that as it is very easy to compare and revisit. Great job.

[langobard]

Why then are there unfinished statues and obelisk in quarrys if they could cast them in place?

[alicet]

"2 Hungarian guys trying to speak English" 😄 You two did a good job with this interview. Interesting theory.

[richvandervecken]

To the two men who had the conversation and chose to share it with us thank you for being willing to think outside of traditional thought! Only by looking at puzzles from different angles can a solution be discovered! I would evaluate any actual points or arguments for insights that maybe didn't occur to you and press on. All great ideas and breakthroughs in human history were initially met with skepticism and ridicule. This is just the forge of purification to burn off concepts that cannot withstand scrutiny. Empierical testing of the idea combined with numerous failures teaches us what does not work. Most men in history who achieved anything worth knowing by being stubbornly persistent seeking an answer to a question.

[Beljasion]

If the product mentioned does in fact allow you to melt that type of granite at 800 celcius it appears the answer is staring everyone in the face. They forgot one thing they also had. Dolarite balls. Melting temperature of them is 1200 celcius. That removes the ploblem of the flame blowing it away. Spread the powder over the Granite, heat Dolrite (or whatever those so called pounders are), to hign temperaure with blast furnace then put them on the Granite that was prepared and watch melt and scoop out whats melted. Food for thought and if the waste was usable that would explain why there isn't any large stockpiles of it.

[richvandervecken]

I read through about the first dozen comments and was amazed by how closed minded most of the comments were! Many comments appeared to be completely oblivious to the fact that these two men are speaking in a langauge that is not there native langauge. Most of these critic's probably only speak english and have either never been to a foriegn country or they are so arrogant that they expect everyone in the world to speak in their language. I will tell you what I perceive this man is saying. He discovered a method to make granite pliable using materials that ancient peoples had access to. He also stated that he doesn't claim to know the exact formula or process that they used. How hard would it be once the granite was pliable to mix it with other pliable substances and get a composite that matches what exists at these sites? If I remember basic chemestry in order to blend a homogenous mixture from two ingredients they simply need to have similar melting points. Now I am no geologist but I would guess that all granite regardless of color has a similar melting point. As far as the molds go it seems reasonable to presume that using sand molds similar to casting metal would do the job nicely. A scientific mind would get to work trying to prove or disprove it and not nit pick a non native english speakers inability to communicate his idea into your langauge!

[thetruenolan]

I think that the geopolymers were used to cast large stones, but there is evidence that they also had a more liquid version used for "polishing" surfaces. If you look closely at the lids of the Seraphium boxes, they are glossy. Some people have said they look as if the surface was melted -- but if you look at the lower edges you may notice some drips. Not viscous drips like melted stones, but smaller drips, the kind you would get if you use a geopolymer varnish. The same polish is seen in Peru, and when a flake of the polished surface was examined, it was an aluminum-silicate polymer.

[abefroman]

An engineering professor at Derexel University says that some but not all stones have been poured. You can observe the particulate flow from the pour. It's certainly a good idea.

[strykerjones]

6:49 I have to make a correction to this statement. Water Jet cutting uses abrasive materials, typically agate.

[johnkemas]

Water glass or Sodium Silicate (readily available, easy to make) has been used for many years by machinists and metal casters to make removeable mold cores with fine sand. After you form it to make the cores, you expose it to Carbon Dioxide and it turns very solid and hard instantaneously. After casting the metal, the water glass cores can be easily washed out or the interior pockets of the casting with water quite quickly.

[bottplug]

My theory how the pyramids were built was the blocks were poured. The loose material was transported by river to the base of site. The structure was constructed from the centre and outwards. Each of the blocks were formed and then poured, the compacted. So for the ground level you would have formed a square with the very centre left void. Poured the ring of blocks with four sides, allowed to dry overnight, then next day remove the formwork and install it one block width away. They could have used the previous block as a wall to pour up against. As they went up levels they would transport the loose material through the centre of the structure using those inclined passageways and then poured the blocks from the centre to the outer edge.

[erichter]

This was one of the most interesting podcasts I ever heard. Can’t wait for the follow-up.

[robertpaiva]

One of the products of Egypt was the mining of Barcobinate of Soda, which the Pharoahs referred to as the elixir of the gods, which is also used today in the smelting of precious metals and also is known as baking soda. Also, this Barcobinate of Soda is also used in the curing of different kinds of cements. I do appreciate your presentation as a studying conversation. EXCELLENT!!

[waynecooper]

Natron is another name for sodium carbonate: a relatively strong base but somewhat weaker than lye (sodium hydroxide). Quartz is also the main component of glass. Heating glass with a strong base - even at temperatures far less than 800 degrees C - will even corrode lab glass. So, there is some potential merit to this guy's theory. Consider that the natron in ancient times would have been crude. If obtained via evaporation, as suggested here, there would also have been sodium chloride (salt) and phosphates like sodium phosphate that solidified with the natron upon evaporation.

That said, if the purpose of this natron was to degrade or dissolve granite, the presence of either salt or phosphates may actually be beneficial to their task. Indeed, one of the ways hobbyists etch glass is with phosphoric acid. At increased temperatures, phosphate salts might do the trick by themselves or amplify the power of the natron significantly; possibly by the formation of a third substance from the heat induced reaction between natron, salt, phosphates, carbon dioxide and ash (which contains Potassium). Food for thought so I'll keep this short.

[islandmonusvi]

Kudos to the Interviewer…thoughtful and provocative…

[olddanb]

A perfect example of the process of Argument.
Argument does not mean to shout. It means to argue your point against another. By speaking your argument.
Where sometimes to argue your point more strongly, you sometimes accept parts of the other argument to help explain your own.
Thank you gentlemen. A real pleasure to engage with.
Well done both.

[kateS]

It’s extremely promising for research to see people of such diverse horizons throw their intelligence and “out of the box” approach to figuring things out.
Thank you BOTH!!!!

[erniemajor]

Amazing. How refreshing to hear people actually THINKING and communicating their thoughts. Subscribing. Fascinating stuff.

[bryane]

If over 4000 we have all these great minds and technology and we are still theorizing how it was done... Its clear the egyptians didnt do all this.
There are over a hundred pyramids and thousands of status, sites and megaliths that add up to millions of pounds, stones, dust and as this video says ash.
When we talk about these numbers it just doesnt makes sense, specially cause the tschnology was lost and there is no records of how any of this was done, not rven hieroglyphs, and they used to document everything so why leave out their expertise?
Every egyptian must have been a fine craftman and they must had everyone working on these structures all day.
Remember that the pyramids at giza have over 2.3 million stones. If you were to just COUNT to 2.3 millions itd take you over 60 days of non stop counting, now imagine cutting, moving, shaping and placing all these things in such a sophisticated way, it jsut doesnt adds up.