The Problem with Ultra Gogeta Vs Black Frieza

#BlackFrieza #UltraGogeta #sparkingzero

How powerful is Black Frieza? Can Black Frieza defeat Gogeta? In this video we discuss which transformation of Gogeta could defeat Black Frieza. Gogeta is the fusion of Goku and Vegeta, meaning he is capable of Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego.

How strong is Black Frieza?
How strong is Ultra Instinct Goku?
How strong is fusion?
How strong is broly?
Can Ultra Gogeta defeat Beerus?

[RevoluShane]

Which transformation would Gogeta need to beat Beerus?

Your Thoughts?

[Naruku]

In my opinion I think Frieza's training arc post Broly, Frieza wasn't training to defeat Goku and Vegeta, he was training to beat Gogeta, with his potential and that kind of motivation it would explain why he made light work of both Goku and Vegeta at the end of the Granloah Arc.

[Historian]

In just 4 months, Frieza was able to go from early Super Saiyan level to Super Saiyan Blue level. The jump he would make after 10 years would be astronomical. There is no mortal who compares to him at this point; even fused.

[EWOODJ]

Aside from the fact, we don’t know how strong Black Frieza is.

[Radiomen_IV]

We don't know how strong he is, nor do we know how strong he's going to be when we see him again. I doubt very seriously that he stopped training since we've seen him last.

[conzillahh]

I really liked fusion when it was first introduced, but I much prefer when the characters fight on their own. I like the idea that gogeta would be unable to use an “ultra form” because of how fundamentally different ego and instinct are. It keeps fusions nerfed so it’s not just a get out of jail free card.

[da_hitmanhart]

Ultra gogeta would be overkill on frieza

[laricus]

I'm interested to see how it goes. My current theory is that Goku/Vegeta will get to the point that they fill they have to fuse, or may even attempt to start with that, but Black Frieza will separate them and reveal that he's also learned the same Spirit Fission ability that Vegeta learned in the Moro arc. It may not happen, but it would be one of those "oh snap" kind of moments when you realize the villain is even more powerful than you thought. Frieza is the classic example of that, after all. Maybe Broly would have to help them since they can't fuse?

[jeremymorris]

We don't really know how strong a Super Hero Arc Black Freiza is, however SH arc Goku implies Gohan who Goku is relative to can beat any threat to Earth which would include a Granola Arc Freiza.

So if Goku and Vegeta are above Granola Arc Freiza and fusion is a Max × Max multipler then Base Gogeta alone could easily handle Granola Arc Freiza. You would have to argue that Super Hero Arc Freiza is stronger then Super Hero Arc Goku and Vegeta combined for him to defeat base Gogeta alone. Let alone any multiplers.

Also as you mentioned, Black Frieza is under Beerus and Blue Fusion has been implied to be stronger then Beerus since the Black Arc.

[jamainegardner]

I personally say current Gogeta would need SSJG at best, SSJ3 at worst. Broly Movie Gogeta in Blue is hard confirmed > Beerus while Black Frieza vs Beerus is meant to be a question right now. Then Goku snd Vegeta get a shit-ton stronger up through Superhero.

Also, where did you get those renders of DBS Gogeta with classic (best and truest) colours?

[alatusedits]

Ultra gogeta one shots and it's not even close.

People don't understand that fusions are millions of times stronger than their parts

[georgie]

He’s as strong as Gogeta Blue from the Broly movie is, because he quite cleaver, he wouldn’t get to SS Gogeta then think he’s ready to beat them. No he would try to be as safe as possible and get as strong as possible. But in the meantime, Goku and Vegeta were getting stronger on their own, something Frieza wasn’t aware of. So I think it goes like this
Current SSB Gogeta
Current SSG Gogeta= Black Frieza
Broly Movie Gogeta

[Mr_AbdullahYT]

actualy in the anime goku says that not even vegito could stand up to him so since gokus base is 60 milion and so is vegetas power level at that point 60milx60m, l=3.6quadrilion thats already absurd but vegito also has SSJ3 witch meanshe can multily that by 400 witch would make his power level 1.44 quintilion witch is a 24 bilion multiplair from base however we can debunk is by saying potara=fuzee+fuzee X 10 witch doesnt make sense since goku was strugling to beat boo in ssj3 witch is a 400 times multiplaier and vegito would be a 20 times multiplair in base how ever my claim might also be absurd and SSG might be just a 20k times multiplair its for you to dicide witch one makes more sense

[rustyrattle]

Last we saw Gogeta he was on par with SS Blue Goku and Vegeta in base. If he appeared today, he'd be absolutely overpowered. Black Frieza could maybe defeat a current SS Blue Gogeta, but if he uses Ultra Instinct and/or Ultra Ego I can't see Gogeta not stomping

Not only that, but Frieza only trained to get stronger. Gogeta not only has immense power but also a myriad of hax, abilities and skills from Goku and Vegeta, and then some

[gammafrost]

I think Gogeta would need anywhere from ssb evolution to ultra instinct/ego to defeat black Frieza or at least give him a run for his money. Frieza is no fool and we’ve only seen a glance of his black form. I really hope that Toyataro actually gives us a battle between Gogeta and black Frieza. I want to see Gogeta bleed for once and pushed to his absolute limit. It makes things far more interesting and shows once again that Frieza’s potential is monstrous.

[Crow_Rising]

In regards to the idea of a hypothetical "mixed ultra" fusion form in which Gogeta or Vegito are simultaneously in the Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego forms, I personally find it hard to comprehend the idea of such a form even existing. I don't mean that it would be too powerful for me to comprehend, I mean the opposite; Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego are completely contradictory forms. Ultra Instinct is all about avoiding damage whatever it takes to do so, while Ultra Ego is all about tanking damage and then inflicting it back on the opponent twofold.

Effectively, such a transformation would constantly be at odds with itself. In dodging, it would lose out on the attack boost. In tanking, it would lose out on the entire point of being able to dodge well. Worst case scenario the two forms would mix so poorly that it would kill the user attempting to use both together, best case scenario they simply cancel each other out. It would be much more practical to flip between the two forms on the fly to gain whichever unique bonus is most beneficial in the heat of the moment, but we don't even know that Gogeta or Vegito would be capable of using either form let alone both. It's specifically pointed out that it's more difficult for those who are naturally inclined towards learning one of the two forms to learn the other. Vegeta's more of a destroyer by nature, so he learns Ultra Ego more easily. Goku's more of a calm headed martial arts user, so Ultra Instinct comes more naturally to him. It would be hard for Vegeta to learn Ultra Instinct or for Goku to learn Ultra Ego because these forms are contrary to their personalities. As such, it's hard to predict what would happen with a fusion between the two of them.

As such, the most powerful Gogeta we could say for sure could exist right now is a Gogeta that uses the same technique used by Goku and Vegeta earlier into the Super manga, which is to primarily use the Blue form but to flip to the SSG form for brief instances for its speed boost. However, as Goku and Vegeta are now aware of the Beast form it might not be entirely impossible for Gogeta to figure out a way to use it as well. If so, this would be far more powerful than using Blue and SSG and would put Gogeta almost on par with if he used one of the Ultra forms, but that is still a giant "if". It is possible that obtaining the Ultimate form is a prerequisite to obtaining Beast, and if so Goku and Vegeta would likely need to undergo the same ritual Gohan did to obtain the form so that they could then learn how to harness the power of Beast, and then use that power while fused. I find it unlikely that they would have any desire to do this unless absolutely necessary however.

[AceTechnologies]

The other thing is, with Gogeta in the broly movie, it was confrimed he wasnt going all out in terms of his full power though

[FluppietheRockruffFan]

Reminder DBS Broly Gogeta was able to match Broly's Super Saiyan with his own, the same dude who ignored a Galick Kamehameha, gave the Blue Bros a run for their money, and beat the shit outta Golden Frieza post T.O.P for 1 HOUR AND 30 MINUTES, plus Soul Punisher is basically already a insta-kill move against Frieza, a Angel and G.O.D Hakai energy infused soul punisher would just be you lose as soon as he starts charging the attack

[simeon]

I heavily disagree with the multipliers you gave for ssj(50, 100 and 400 x base), especially since the Cell saga happened

[insanemakaioshin]

Could you please do a series devoted to techniques that the Z-fighters should have learned due to how useful they are? Ex.:
Devilmite beam
Kaioken & Spirit Bomb (those that spent time on King Kai’s)
The remaining Yardratian techniques
Fusion dance (Tiencha)