What is Christian Perfection? Ryan Danker

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For hundreds of years the church has preached a gospel of grace but has typically limited it to conversion and the forgiveness of sins. In the 18th century, God raised up John Wesley and the people called Methodists who experienced and preached the penetrating character of the gospel as the powerful work of God to overcome sin and radically transform lives. This is what John Wesley meant by Christian perfection, or entire sanctification. Christian perfection, then, is the work of God in the heart of a person that actually makes it possible to genuinely love God and love neighbor, no longer being captive to sin. Not only is there evidence for this doctrine in Scripture, it also provides a more holistic and mature understanding of the work that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are doing in the world.

Watch this Seven Minute Seminary by Ryan Danker as he describes John Wesley's doctrine of perfection and explains why its so critical of a vision for the church.

[MichaelSelhost]

Read scripture without placing man's doctrines between the lines and this is exactly what message you will find. May the revelation of God's truth and promises be seen by those who long for Him.

[avemat]

SEVEN
REASONS FOR CHRISTIAN SINLESS PERFECTION

 

1.HEBREWS 10:14

 

For by single offering He
has perfected forever those who are being made holy.

Our sinless perfection is made
possible when Christ’ purchase us with His blood. Our sinless perfection is
accomplished by the cross when God through Christ has made us holy, perfect and
blameless in His sight.

[dh]

Titus 2:11 for the Grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, that we should live soberly, righteously, Godly, in this present world. Wesley got this teaching from the Bible.

[jpinsatx]

A Collect for Grace
O LORD our heavenly Father Almighty and everlasting God who hast safely brought us to the beginning of this day; Defend us in the same with thy mighty power and grant that this day we fall into no sin, neither run into any kind of danger; but that all our doings being ordered by thy governance may be righteous in thy sight; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. (Book of Common Prayer, 1789)

[jamesroyal]

He needs to perfect his bow tie, ha God bless you brother

[PatrickSteil]

Hello Ryan, been Methodist for 20 years now and am a Youth Pastor continually looking to dig deeper.

At the end you summarized the concept of perfection as:

being made whole in love

and you mentioned in your video that as Methodist we don’t have so much a focus on sin but filling our hearts with love so that there is no room for sin.

I have recently been diving deep into the concept of “The Fear of the Lord”. Which to me basically means to honor the God of all Creation, the miracle worker, the life giver with our complete trust and OBEDIENCE.

I have come to think about the relationship between live and Obedience and they seem to be almost interchangeable. Or at least you can’t have LOVE without OBEDIENCE.

Love requires rules. Love without rules becomes abusive and demented as proven by man every day.

I think it short changes God and man to think that “all we need is love”. We need love with obedience to God’s principles in order to “move on toward perfection”. And it is more so that God would be perfecting us not that we are becoming perfect. Obedience means following his rules and getting our will lined up with his.

Would love to here your thoughts. Thanks and God Bless!

[davidshelton]

One of the books I've ever read on this subject is, A Theology of Love, by Wynkoop.

[theneverending]

Yeah I’d love to meet a sinless Christian. I haven’t met one yet. What I see in sinless perfectionist is either pride and arrogance or someone overly anxious killing them selves to try to be sinless.

[garywilliams]

I agree. Overall Wesley was right on what he taught

[ike]

Had he not met the Moravians, he would not have been transformed. Paul was a legalist until he encountered Christ. In the same way, Wesley encountered Christ through the Moravians and only then was empowered.

[aldridgejay]

All I want to do is fix this guys bow tie.

[chriscomis]

The Wesleys and Whitfield were very inconsistent in their respective versions of "entire sanctificaiton." GW was adamant against JW that there is no such thing as entire sanctification in this life, but he too believed that Romans 7 does NOT apply to the Christina life. So, all the "Holy Roller" Methodists (as they were labeled back then) held to SOME version of Christian Perfectionism or another. But because GW was a Calvinist, his version of this was more tempered by his commitments to certain doctrines like Total Depravity (and not the watered-down version of this that Arminius himself held to). But much of this whole debate, even in Arminius' day, comes down to the exegesis and application of Romans 7 to the Christian life, or not. Arminius himself was brought up on charges at the Synod of Dort for denying that Romans 7 was about the Christian life -- views which he got from the other Anabaptists that he was rubbing elbows with in the Netherlands, before he was brought up on charges for denying most of what we now call the "Five Points of Calvinism." But anyway, even Methodist Calvinists like GW ended up exporting from England, and from the Church of England, their particular versions of "non-conformist" Methodist commitments to some version or another of Christina Perfectionism to the Americas. And GW's version of this is what ended up taking root in the Americas during the First Great Awakening. And this ended up spreading across North America during the "westward expansion, " and the years of "manifest destiny, " etc. And this is why some American Church historians in our day have referred to the history of Christianity in North America as "Methodism gone to seed." In other words, the entire history of American Christianity and the Church could easily be described and presented in terms of one form or another of Methodism having gone bad.

[theneverending]

I don’t know a single Christian Methodist or not that actually believe they’ve gotten to a point where they have totally stopped sinning.

[brotherjim]

Ummmm...well...not sure where to begin on this one, or even if I should...hovering.

I had to chuckle when he quoted John as saying that for most, Christian perfection is manifested as someone is dying. Dang.

I really, really hate the sound of the phrase "Christian perfection." Even less irritating would be using Christian perfectness, implying a process rather than a culmination. But that, too, would give way to incorrect connotations, since the actual process is what precedes so-called entire sanctification; the result, love's fullness, being an instaneous event as stated.

Entire sanctification, too, a misnomer and I assert to an even greater extent then the afore. Kindly let me objectively and subjectively explain.

An axiom I coined 2 or 3 decades ago - also posted in another comment somewhere in my channel:

Man (yeah, was written in pre-PC days), even born-again Christian man, will always limit theology to either that which they've personally experienced, or what they're willing to yet undergo and have [God's]/the Faith to believe.

So, as a generalized analogy, let's say there are 6 things available to a mortal, lettered a through f. If someone obtains a, and they don't believe b and c genuinely exist, are not even aware of the existence of d, e and f, then their belief system is limited to only a.

Suppose a few [See-more (get it?) and] discover both a and b...

Suppose a John Wesley or = comes along and assigns those letters to the mountaintop experiences of their Christian walk, the baptizings [my word] they've undergone [a cleansing + empowering replacement combo]. Further suppose they've never heard of anyone anywhere who's received the latter 3 of the 6 letters of blessings, such never even entering their thought process. But they're full knowing that to have b is rare, and both b AND C!?!

So, for such, a + b + c = the full manifestations of God in people, hence entire sanctification. But it's only entire to them because that is all they know exists in the universe.

I am at least very, very thankful that seminary students are still being taught Wesley's "entire" (sorry, I had to make it satirical) sanctification theology. And I assume the psychology [- in addition to reality -] behind Wesley declaring the vast majority don't have it until death, so that those in the pulpits aren't prevented from teaching it if they are themselves not a recipient. [I wonder how much actually plays out, though.]

But on the plus side of a 1-minute mgmt.: the Word says when we see Him face to face, we will be like Him. The nine Fruits of the Spirit allow the mental assent to seeing Jesus' persona, but apparently that falls short. However, just because all will see Him fully THEN, it doesn't exclude the possibility here and now for a few so consumed, neither should someone think it nearly impossible for a, b and c in their mortal journey.

As for d, e and f? Think NINE Fruits (yeah, I know, many teach the other 8 are subservient to Love). Think Wisdom. Think?? - I will have to get back to you on that one.

Think beyond the above axiom; think beyond the personal testimonies of others; think death upon death to one's self.

["...whoever loses his life for My sake will [fully] find it."

Perhaps the prerequisite: "...he who hates his life in this world...."]

[Edit additions]

[grgodu]

John Wesley was not a Wesleyan nor called one so perhaps you shouldn't be either.  I follow Christ ("anointed one") so I am a Christian ("little anointed one"). Now that's a perfect perspective to be in line with and the path to fully understand perfection. John W. had many fine qualities of Christ which we should emulate but only insofar as that we emulate it by giving credit to Christ (the source of such qualities). Let's keep it simple and give honor and credit to whom (Christ) it is due.

[juerbert]

The breastplate of (CHRIST's) Righteousness is given to us after we vow (swear) allegiance to JESUS, because HE has justified us, through HIS Supreme Blood Sacrifice of Atonement, as the LAMB of GOD !
But, what does Romans 8:4 state ?
'The righteous requirement of the Law's might be fulfilled in us 🐑🐑🐑, who walk according to the [HOLY]❤️SPIRIT !! 👍✅😀

[UsualStaples]

So... the Book of Common Prayer... and where is scriptural support?

[avemat]

SEVEN
REASONS FOR CHRISTIAN SINLESS PERFECTION

 

1.HEBREWS 10:14

 

For by single offering He
has perfected forever those who are being made holy.

Our sinless perfection is made
possible when Christ’ purchase us with His blood. Our sinless perfection is
accomplished by the cross when God through Christ has made us holy, perfect and
blameless in His sight.