Understanding the sinking of the Moskva

Today we will consider a case study in understanding the state of crew and ship reliability as regards the loss of the Slava-class cruiser Moskva. The 2008 engagement between the Nanuchka-class corvette Mirazh and the Georgian Stenka-class cutter Giorgi Toreli serves as a perfect example of crew performance on a Russian warship at a time of war. The conclusions are grim, yet should provide a good approximation to the state of operations on the Moskva during its fateful final voyage.

МРК "Мираж". Август-2008. - filmed by Aleksandr Danilov

[Redhand]

I was in the US Navy from 1971-1974. I served on a WW-II era destroyer, upgraded, of course, but still not cutting edge. It was a reserve training ship. I mention its age because of its condition. It was wonderfully maintained, and very "shipshape." Safety was always a key value from the Captain right down to the lowest seaman. So, seeing the grossly deteriorated and in some areas completely missing lifelines on the main deck was a shocker. Hell, in some cases even the stanchions holding the lifelines on the edges of the main deck are missing, so there are no lifelines in place at all. This neglect of basic crew safety is clearly "institutionalized, " since a missing stanchion is obvious evidence of long-term neglect or even concern for basic crew safety. In the US Navy, I doubt that a ship would even be allowed to get underway in such unseaworthy condition. Truly shocking.

[D__Lee]

If the Russian navy vessels were as modern, technologically advanced, well maintained and crewed as the "super yachts" of the Russian oligarchs, they'd be a very potent surface force.

[paulmakinson]

Old Soviet saying: "We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us".

[technoman]

I have no naval experience, but I am a heavy equipment mechanic. I noticed there was an empty oil stained bucket on the deck next to the launcher. It’s not necessarily related to the launcher, it could have been used for something else, but if you keep a bucket around a piece of hydraulic equipment that’s a pretty good indicator that it leaks a lot, and/or you need to constantly bleed it just to make it work.

[mojorasin]

In 1984 while aboard USS H E Holt FF 1074 I was able to observe the then CCCP Minsk, their version of an aircraft carrier, at very close proximity for two weeks. We were dispatched from Subic Bay to an area 100nm East of Vietnam and assigned to shadow the Minsk. The mission was to observe and to gather Elint and other intelligence. What I could see then and from the numerous personal photos I have now completely concurs with the authors conclusion . The crew were shirtless and in shorts even during active flight ops. The ship itself belched smoke like it was burning coal. And it went dead in the water at least twice during that timeframe. This was at the height of Soviet military prowess. I am not shocked at all that it has only deteriorated since then.

[yesterday-db]

I think it is wonderful how the generous russian navy allowed the Ukrainians to test their new Neptune missile . It is great how they masterfully brought their ship in close enough to make this test run as effect as it was . Thankyou . Slava Ukraine

[tadeuszczernia]

I remember talking to some Polish ship-yard workers back in the old days of CCCP. Poland was building ships for sowiet navy and their standard procedure was to remove oil filters to avoid trouble of their getting dirty and causing more work. I think the only difference is that the ships are decades older. Go Ukraine !!!

[robertterhune]

The only things you have to understand about the sinking of the Moskova is 1. They should have not believed their own propaganda about Ukraine being a "special military operation" and had their weapons hot instead of thinking this was some "exercise", and had them down. And 2. Russian damage control is pathetic. The USS Stark got hit with 2 excocet missles, that are comparable to the ones that took out Moskova, yet her crew which was 1/4 the size of Moskova's saved the much smaller ship.

[DukeOfTwist]

When your flagship is sunk 'AT SEA' by a nation that has no functional Navy its a really bad day

[charlesharris]

This is not the first time a Russian fleet has been proven to be incompetent. The Voyage of the Damned that ended in the destruction of the Russian 2nd Pacific Fleet at Tsushima in 1905.

[breadbug]

It feels so strange knowing that a ship I once looked at so frequently on Wikipedia is now at the bottom of the ocean, that history has been made

[oswaldocollazo]

As a US NAVY SEAMAN BACK IN THE EARLY 70 TIES ON AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER, TRAINING DRILLS WERE THE NUMBER ONE TOP PRORITY . We drilled day and night, and most of the drills was conducted at around 200am to 300am, and would last at least 1 hour. We trained until we were always at combat ready. The training was intense, nothing like the Russia navy.( USSR)

[byterock]

Just as a side note. I visited the Baltic fleet way back in 82, they did not have any 'No-skid' paint on any of the ships we visited, this one looks like it is none on this ship as well. This would be the turbine control room and that was most likely the Chief ERA coming to see what the problem was

[swaghauler]

Considering that Russian COMMERCIAL ships have broken in half and sunk AT ANCHOR (the MV Arvin Moment, posted right here on YouTube) because of poor maintenance, why should the Russian Navy be any different?

[oveidasinclair]

The first thing I came up with was the lack of professionalism of the Russian navy when the Moscow was hit, I wouldn't doubt for one minute that it's water tight doors and compartments were not set for battle conditions

[simonbeaird]

It seems to me that the Russian Navy has not only learned nothing since the Battle of Tsushima but has not even realized that it needs to learn anything! Appalling standards of maintenance and training seem to be endemic in all Russian forces. I wonder how many of their ICBMs would fail to launch or even explode in their silos. I sincerely hope that no one ever finds out!

[michaelpatrick]

I was in the USN during the late ‘80’s and served on board an aircraft carrier. Just looking at the state of this ship from not a lot of video all I can say is wow. To me their is absolutely no discipline. It’s no wonder the Russian military is a joke.

[armandomercado]

About a week before the special operation began, there were news reports all Russian subs in port were ordered to sea. The subs were in port for routine maintenance and resupply, which was cut short. Wonder what condition they are in.

[georgem]

I recall an evaluation from the '80s that said that in the event of a full on conflict between the USN/NATO navies and the Soviet Navy that the Soviets ships would have a very exciting and very short life. As noted here the USN can have its own problems, as any large organization will, but it appears that the Russian Navy is orders of magnitude ahead on disfunction, traing, reliability, damage control, discipline, etc.. Historically, the Soviet/Russian attitude is that human resources (soliers and sailors) are as expendable as any other commodity like fuel or ammunition. Very different from the western philosophy that it is easier to replace things than trained people.

[Scott]

As an HT in the USN from 1998-2004, and not to make this a long post no one will read anyway. Being the Number one Attack team leader for the USS Kitty Hawks Flying Squad I'm probably the most experienced post ww2 sailor in the seldom talked about art of damage control. Watching the video from that missile boat was mind numbing. It brought back a memory of an old saying about a group of a bunch of inept sailors collectively trying to accomplish a very basic task and failing. A bunch of monkeys trying to fuck a football. And FFS it's called stow for sea but I guess that's one of the many closely held secrets of the Western navies. I don't even want to get started on underway replenishment.